Balance Update 2011 - Stage 1 - Initial Discussion

[fred1011010110]

readin all thise coments all i gotta is say is ya lets fkn switch n swap all the op spells from op classes 2 weak ones ya lets make 1 big fkn mess.

ffs be creative

-fred1011010110

[Llayne]

It seems like a big concern but tbh I don't see many barbs skilling intimidate. I could be wrong but for me I feel it would be a waste of points

[bois]

Question remains. Will musical chairs switching of spells actually solve anything or just push problems under the carpet?

It is the simplest thing but will it solve the problems once and for all? Or does the game need earth shattering changes?

I personally think 5 seconds knock is too much. For any class and any knock. If we used the scale a,b,c,d,e, then we would end up with at minimum 2,3,4,5,6 to make sense. 2,2,3,3,4 could make sense if it has a partner component that scales properly. That would be a bitch to balance.

Remember what knock is .
An immobilize
A 100% debuff of evade, resist, block, (miss)
A cannot attack
A cancel attack

Could a static Knock duration solve it? I think it could.

Consider some crazy options (just hypothetical not actual application, don't go crazy on the numbers they are not real)

Kick at 2 seconds Knock level 1 -5> Partner debuff: strength reduction (2,3,4,5,6) for 10 seconds. Has damage component.

Feint at 2 seconds Knock level 1-5 > Partner debuff : weapon damage reduction (2,3,4,5,6) for 15 seconds. No damage component

Ambush at 3 seconds Knock level 1-5 > Partner debuff : Elemental damage (protection) reduction on target (2,3,4,5,6%) for 20 seconds. No damage component

Will domain at 4 seconds Knock level 1-5 > Partner debuff : physical damage (protection) reduction on target (2,3,4,5,6%) for 20 seconds. No damage component.

Now I know people like to harp on figures and spells. What I put above is to show a principle and not actual spells. The numbers are completely random and the debuffs are totally random as well. Don't discuss them as if they are spells to be delivered as I wrote them.
The principle is that the knock being powerful component remains static and the partner component being weaker (allowing other player options) can be the one that scales.
I hope I explained it in a way that most can see where I am coming from. Of course this is born from Seher's concept which I consider to be quite solid.

Regards

[Seher]

Originally Posted by bois

Of course I agree with you 100%. Does NGD have the belly for such changes?

I hope so. They've had in the past, the last balance update was great and radical, and I had high hopes for Regnum. Then warmasters came. :/

Originally Posted by bois

Actually, the gradually increasing duration system on ALL CC effects is the problem. That system of 1,2,3,4,5 duration will have to be scrapped. I consider it to be a conceptual problem.

Me, too. There are many interesting spell effects that are just nearly impossible to implement because of this system. There's no point in keeping it, we need something new.
I've started a thread about this. Your workaround would work, too, (especially with shorter cool downs per level!) but it remains somehow dirty.

What I think the balance stages should look like:
1. CC fix, coupled with a spell level fix
2. Armor fix: Absolute damage reduction makes balance unnecessarily hard and causes items to be REALLY overpowered for faster-attacking classes
3. Finally a definition of hunters, something besides pets and camo that differs them from marksmen. (I prefer my own suggestion obviously :P but any proper definition will do)
4. Somehow get the game to work again. :P Those changes above would for sure break everything you can break, and that's the stage in which classes should be made similarly strong via adjusting damage output etc. Smaller steps are better here, but JUST here. The "too many points"-problem for level 60s should be solved here as well.

Such an update would make me an addict again. Could be a bit too much though, but none of those points can really be postponed, everything's a critical issue. (Well except for the armor fix, maybe...)

[Topogigio_BR]

Originally Posted by Droc

It seems like a big concern but tbh I don't see many barbs skilling intimidate. I could be wrong but for me I feel it would be a waste of points

I see. If in the changed they turned defeating roar and howl to 6m radius spells. And if they dont do this barbs will be just run to kill.

[Darcyeti]

Sorry for being half off topic now, but I have an important question concerning this discussion.

Is NGD interessted in opinions from german users which are not registered at this forum?

We had a thread started by a usere about your plans to discuss like we all are doing here in german gamigo forum. This thread has been deleted without any comment because it's forbidden by gamigo to start threads about plans, changelogs etc "not officially announced by NGD" what meens, if gamigo has gotten no email from NGD, we can't discuss important things like this.

It seems that gamigo does not want us to be part of a discussion which can change the way Regnum is going to get.

I would love to have some NGD official answering me.

regards

[Latan]

Originally Posted by bois

I personally think 5 seconds knock is too much.

maybe for warriors and archers because they use normal hits, but mages can only count on their spells, so you have to subtract 2 seconds because of normal GCD, so you should have 3 "real" seconds where you can cast something upon the enemy, that is one spell when the enemy is on the ground and another just before he stands up and fights back

[ironskin]

i think just about what end will hunters have... atm this unlucky class counts alot on ambush, so he can cast debuffs and Dots if needed, and keep far warriors. How the **** do u think an hunter can stop a barb now? stunning fist sucks, ambush is nomore. try to stop a barb running at 25% with UM activated that hits u for 900 normals while running..... Dear NGD this is gonna be another gret fail , becareful or u can lose other players, that isn't what i want, but i think i'm gonna quit too if u don't make any "good updates" for "all Classes" and not only for the usual locks, marks , barbs.... Intimidate on barb ? okay but don't nerf ambush dears, i can't stop my enemy, or better i can't survive. So watch out well for what are u gonna do, listen to players , they are playing cause they like the game, and the last 3 updates killed the 50% of them.... maybe a fourth can give the final cut...

[bois]

Originally Posted by Latan

maybe for warriors and archers because they use normal hits, but mages can only count on their spells, so you have to subtract 2 seconds because of normal GCD, so you should have 3 "real" seconds where you can cast something upon the enemy, that is one spell when the enemy is on the ground and another just before he stands up and fights back

GCD could be modified, if needed mages can have a 5 second knock if they needed. In such a case DoTs cancel knock to make things interesting. Make hit chance reductions actually work so mages have a potential second mitigation layer in the form of blindness, curse etc. In such a case, blindness and curse works differently in that once you successfully hit spells like these before you get knocked, they actually return your evade, miss chance under knock.
There are many things that can be done without making mages dependent on having to hit a long knock. The fact that a mage would only be knocked for 2 -3 seconds may work in their favour too. Knock is just the first part. The whole picture is not about knock , I just happens to be the worst of the lot right now.

[Llayne]

I don't play any archers but I can see how hunters will be totally screwed by the change to ambush. Marksmen can handle the change but I don't see how a hunter will survive. I hope that if you do change ambush that it has a 10m range at least.