New Balance Update: more adjustments and a new spell (phase 7) - Page 17

HidraA · 08-19-2010, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vroek

Its like 0.2 sec difference between bow speeds, it used to be like 0.6-0.7 in difference before the ranged attack speed increase.

If is like this is kinda stupid...
Speed of bows between slow and fast must be realy visible and dmg of slow must be highter....
Lmao this game became to not have sense in some ideeas...
Maybe is fantasy game...but not call them slow and fast anymore...just long and short...
-make slow bows to hit highter and speed realy visible like 0.5-1 sec between.
Make one game with logic please

And about topic....
Ahhaaha 10 sec A01 ahahah this is kinda stupid think ever.
Short time of spells will make game hardest to be played.
Now only mages have advantage of 60 sec buff?...or 120 arcane acceleration?
I am stuned every day about this ideas.
Like more ppl told make him 30 sec at least and cut mana cost.
This kind of short spells not make wars longer for sure think a bit...if one tank isn't one tank then is useless.
Here are 2 ideas what fight one each another:
-"wee nerfred demage to make fights longer"
-"wee made lowest duration of buffs for?"
One barb need around 10-15 sec to buff...if you make all this spells 10 sec(sarcasm) then is kinda stupid.
Anyway lots of classes need to buffs a lots by definition...if all spells have short duration
is damn hard to keep 3-4 buffs up.
On test server look good some of them.When all people make PvP or just testing.
But usual by experience when you grind and one hunter come frome camo,or when you fight on live server in huge zergs isnt so easy to buuf 3-4 spells and fight or keep them up.
But for 400 mana i am realy sure noone will use that because he will go out of mana for second one.
Now all will reskil for Sc,ripost ,kick and fieth 5 etc will be more knarbs like before.
As hunter or marx one distract shot 4 or ambush 4 and he is dead.
Sorry but who made previos balance had more logic ...employ him back

chilko · 08-19-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doppelapfel

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilko

Natural Armor: Protection reduced to 10% to 30%.

Hm useless i guess.

Please try to avoid this kind of comments...
base protection has been increased a lot. this is why multipliers need to be toned down. have you actually tried this before saying that now the spell is useless?

UmarilsStillHere · 08-19-2010, 06:51 PM

Quick tests just with these 2 spells:

+2 'Miss'
Clearly this is not viable tanking.

bois · 08-19-2010, 06:59 PM

I remain cautiously hopeful.

Ao1 needs a second look. Maybe a variable time from 10-30 seconds and a reconsideration of mana cost. I would not mind losing protection coverage to gain some time on this spell.

Rigorous preparation + awareness is not a viable option. Considering I cannot increase my evasion rate in any meaningful way (knight) to help with the evasion %, challenge (2) remains as a much more viable alternative.
Tanking with this spell which basically moves my evasion % from an average of 14% to about %17 with barbs, and considering crash(1) could almost nullify it, makes this spell less that desirable.
Also, powers cannot be evaded. As far as I know they can be blocked and resisted .
Rigorous prep deals with normal hits and the low rate of ~20% evasion for 290 mana does not seem to be useful. Even paired up with challenge (5) my calculations suggest I can get up to 37% evasion versus a single opponent(decent). Adding crash to the equation makes this spell look rather dull again. In a RvR sense it is the equivalent of a paper shield.

Right now resists are a knight's best friend. Blocking second and evade a distant third. I can't even see Miss in the distance.

A spell that registers a miss every ~20 hits is also less than desirable. (tested).
I also found it funny when I matched Intimidating threat (debuff one opponent) versus Awareness (self buff) . what does +10 miss chance equate to in % miss chance?

Artec

Hamster_of_sorrow · 08-19-2010, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilko

Please try to avoid this kind of comments...
base protection has been increased a lot. this is why multipliers need to be toned down. have you actually tried this before saying that now the spell is useless?

this may be a bit off topic, but im starting to think that YOU dont try these spells on amun. take Ao1 for example, its on the verge of uselessness because the duration is not worth the points. onslaught we already went over. and so on. its as if you just throw some values at it and call it a day.

and your suggestion for rigorous preparation and awareness, did u HONESTLY believe that anyone would find that viable?

Dracice · 08-19-2010, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HidraA

If is like this is kinda stupid...
Speed of bows between slow and fast must be realy visible and dmg of slow must be highter....
Lmao this game became to not have sense in some ideeas...

Lol i totaly agree

+1

Kaixo · 08-19-2010, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shwish

Pets are not going to be useless at all. theres no reason why you cant set yourself up to be a Beast Master type archer and drop your stealth abilities. Do you really need to scream out tracks when there are 20 other hunters doing the same thing.

The problem is that many players are so focused on thier own damage that they neglect the skills in the pets tree. there are some godly defensive buffs and passives in the pet tree and not to mention the all powerful Beastial Wrath. A fully buffed pet in like a Ao1 knight doing 500 normals if you've ever fought one. you seriously wont even need to use a bow for this setup. i want to level a hunter up just to play with this style

And seeing the hunter coming is really irrelevant... we see every other class coming and they dont complain about that. The point of this update is for hunters to decide between being an Assassin or Beast Master and not have the best of both worlds

¿Godly defensive buffs?, one to reduce 70 damage or something like that (or you think the pet has a super armor and 40% brigs a super bonus) and other to give 300hp to my pet. If you don't know barbarians kill pets in 1-2 hits, warlocks the same. Perhaps you are the only one in the game that have not seen that pets die.
If they see me in a PVP mages can cast ivy or beetle swarm and kill my pet easily, barbarians buff themselves and kill my pet quickly. It's not a thing of having the best of two worlds, the problem is to don't have anyyhing of the two worlds because people kills your pet.

Miraculix · 08-19-2010, 08:36 PM

I would like to express my concerns to this balance update concerning the 2 new hunter spells, Stalker & Reveal:

1) Reveal is WAY TOO POWERFUL to be a low level spell in the tree. This spell effectively NULLIFIES the KEY ability of a hunter - stealth. I have to invest hard to get good stealth, yet it can be easily removed, with a medium mana cost and a ridiculously low cooldown. This is insane - this is a VERY powerful spell, it's a clear level 19 spell. I don't even think it's a good idea to give it that to hunters too, with the new stalker (see below). Why not give it to knights?

2) The new Stalker... A VERY powerful spell - in my opinion way too powerful. Entire armies going poof only because of 3 hunters? And then you add an equally (maybe more) powerful, easily obtainable spell to counter it again to the same class? The two most powerful spells (imo) in the hands of the same character, one directly confronting the other? This creates an extremely fragile, unstable, volatile state of balance.

3) The new state of stealth in the game in general: Stealth, while becoming more common because of the new stalker, and being so easily countered by reveal, is probably going to dominate fights from now on, like 1 sultar used to do before. Also, camouflage has lost most of its value now - ANY OTHER CLASS CAN HAVE MORE INVISIBILITY, and what is more, my hard acquired invisibility can be removed by a level 20 hunter.... this is insane.

My suggestion: Move Reveal to ANY OTHER CLASS (dare I say knight?) and make it a level 19 spell, with a cooldown around 2 minutes. Reveal SHOULD ONLY CANCEL STALKER, NOT CAMO. Hunters need to maintain their edge in stealth. Lower the duration of the current stalker to be 3 minutes maximum.

It is my opinion as a player, not a game developer. I am not bashing your balance thoughts, just expressing my concerns!

Regards.

Warthog · 08-19-2010, 08:39 PM

NGD I am very very confused here. And this is my take on knights and there tanking and what truly annoys me about how you are going about this.

1. Ao1 - situational now, I can live with that but 10 secs at 400 mana on lvl 5 I think is a bit harsh. I would really like to see either slightly more duration or slightly less mana, your stated goal is to make fights longer using this skill set as it is is not within this vision in my view as it takes about 1/3 of your mana for 10 sec tanking, pretty much a waist of mana for a longer duration fight.

2. Defensive stance - It is only adding armor points which all in all does not help much unless being attacked by someone using a fast weapon for most part. It destroys ability to support in my opinion, very few choices of what to do if can't cast damaging powers aside from stand there looking dumb and feint someone every once in awhile. CC spells like balestra and ribs breaker should be allowed.

3. Rigorous prep/awareness/block/precise block - The only somewhat viable tank options are all luck/chance based. Anyone who actively plays this game will tell you 8 of 10 times having to rely on luck/chance skills will equal you dead.

4. Caution - Shared with barbs but only real feasible option for defense in my view aside from the passive resists in the weapon tree's which are also shared.

Now all this as is I could live with except for one MAJOR issue that I have. As defined by you the knights are the tanking class, ok. So most of there tankabilty I take it from your point of view should come from combinations of spells in number 3. Ok, I can deal with that. But if a knight is the tank class, why do other classes have tank skills that are NOT luck/chance based as a knight is going to be forced to be? To be a tank in my view you either need to give knights skills on par with other classes tank skills or give other classes skills on par with the knights tank skills. Let me list other class spells quickly.

Archers
Marks/Hunter - Acrobatic, Fixed reduction of damage not based on armor points.
Marks - Strategic position, Fixed reduction of ranged damage not based on armor points.
Barb - Frenzy, Fixed reduction of physical damage no based on armor points.
Conj - Steel Skin, Fixed reduction of damage not based on armor points.

These things in my mind are the things that piss many knights off, myself especially. I am supposed to be the tank but almost every other class has better true tanking skills especially now with Ao1 becoming even more situational based use. So either you need to give knights a true tanking skill on par with these spells. Or these true tanking skills that other classes have need to be completely changed and reworked to be Miss chance/Crit miss chance as what you want by Chilko's own post a knights tankability to be based on. Now I know other classes will hate this suggestion but that should just go to show you even more why it should be done. Make the tank a tank or make the rest be based on luck/chance same as the tank it is only fair.

08-19-2010, 06:51 PM	#163
UmarilsStillHere Marquis Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: England Posts: 2,419	Quick tests just with these 2 spells: +2 'Miss' Clearly this is not viable tanking. __________________ Faith 50 Barb Faithless 50 Lock Umaril 45 Conju Kailas 45 Marks Pel 45 Knight I N Q U I S I T I O N

08-19-2010, 08:36 PM	#168
Miraculix Count Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Infinite Improbability Drive Posts: 1,287	I would like to express my concerns to this balance update concerning the 2 new hunter spells, Stalker & Reveal: 1) Reveal is WAY TOO POWERFUL to be a low level spell in the tree. This spell effectively NULLIFIES the KEY ability of a hunter - stealth. I have to invest hard to get good stealth, yet it can be easily removed, with a medium mana cost and a ridiculously low cooldown. This is insane - this is a VERY powerful spell, it's a clear level 19 spell. I don't even think it's a good idea to give it that to hunters too, with the new stalker (see below). Why not give it to knights? 2) The new Stalker... A VERY powerful spell - in my opinion way too powerful. Entire armies going poof only because of 3 hunters? And then you add an equally (maybe more) powerful, easily obtainable spell to counter it again to the same class? The two most powerful spells (imo) in the hands of the same character, one directly confronting the other? This creates an extremely fragile, unstable, volatile state of balance. 3) The new state of stealth in the game in general: Stealth, while becoming more common because of the new stalker, and being so easily countered by reveal, is probably going to dominate fights from now on, like 1 sultar used to do before. Also, camouflage has lost most of its value now - ANY OTHER CLASS CAN HAVE MORE INVISIBILITY, and what is more, my hard acquired invisibility can be removed by a level 20 hunter.... this is insane. My suggestion: Move Reveal to ANY OTHER CLASS (dare I say knight?) and make it a level 19 spell, with a cooldown around 2 minutes. Reveal SHOULD ONLY CANCEL STALKER, NOT CAMO. Hunters need to maintain their edge in stealth. Lower the duration of the current stalker to be 3 minutes maximum. It is my opinion as a player, not a game developer. I am not bashing your balance thoughts, just expressing my concerns! Regards. __________________ Hit me, nail me, make me God. Panoramix :: Half Elf Hunter ## Miraculix :: Half Elf Marksman ## Aspirinix :: Wood Elf Conjurer Syrtis :: Horus :: Antartes

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08-19-2010, 06:59 PM	#164
bois Count Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trinidad and Tobago Posts: 1,194	I remain cautiously hopeful. Ao1 needs a second look. Maybe a variable time from 10-30 seconds and a reconsideration of mana cost. I would not mind losing protection coverage to gain some time on this spell. Rigorous preparation + awareness is not a viable option. Considering I cannot increase my evasion rate in any meaningful way (knight) to help with the evasion %, challenge (2) remains as a much more viable alternative. Tanking with this spell which basically moves my evasion % from an average of 14% to about %17 with barbs, and considering crash(1) could almost nullify it, makes this spell less that desirable. Also, powers cannot be evaded. As far as I know they can be blocked and resisted . Rigorous prep deals with normal hits and the low rate of ~20% evasion for 290 mana does not seem to be useful. Even paired up with challenge (5) my calculations suggest I can get up to 37% evasion versus a single opponent(decent). Adding crash to the equation makes this spell look rather dull again. In a RvR sense it is the equivalent of a paper shield. Right now resists are a knight's best friend. Blocking second and evade a distant third. I can't even see Miss in the distance. A spell that registers a miss every ~20 hits is also less than desirable. (tested). I also found it funny when I matched Intimidating threat (debuff one opponent) versus Awareness (self buff) . what does +10 miss chance equate to in % miss chance? Artec

08-19-2010, 08:39 PM	#169
Warthog Apprentice Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 90	NGD I am very very confused here. And this is my take on knights and there tanking and what truly annoys me about how you are going about this. 1. Ao1 - situational now, I can live with that but 10 secs at 400 mana on lvl 5 I think is a bit harsh. I would really like to see either slightly more duration or slightly less mana, your stated goal is to make fights longer using this skill set as it is is not within this vision in my view as it takes about 1/3 of your mana for 10 sec tanking, pretty much a waist of mana for a longer duration fight. 2. Defensive stance - It is only adding armor points which all in all does not help much unless being attacked by someone using a fast weapon for most part. It destroys ability to support in my opinion, very few choices of what to do if can't cast damaging powers aside from stand there looking dumb and feint someone every once in awhile. CC spells like balestra and ribs breaker should be allowed. 3. Rigorous prep/awareness/block/precise block - The only somewhat viable tank options are all luck/chance based. Anyone who actively plays this game will tell you 8 of 10 times having to rely on luck/chance skills will equal you dead. 4. Caution - Shared with barbs but only real feasible option for defense in my view aside from the passive resists in the weapon tree's which are also shared. Now all this as is I could live with except for one MAJOR issue that I have. As defined by you the knights are the tanking class, ok. So most of there tankabilty I take it from your point of view should come from combinations of spells in number 3. Ok, I can deal with that. But if a knight is the tank class, why do other classes have tank skills that are NOT luck/chance based as a knight is going to be forced to be? To be a tank in my view you either need to give knights skills on par with other classes tank skills or give other classes skills on par with the knights tank skills. Let me list other class spells quickly. Archers Marks/Hunter - Acrobatic, Fixed reduction of damage not based on armor points. Marks - Strategic position, Fixed reduction of ranged damage not based on armor points. Barb - Frenzy, Fixed reduction of physical damage no based on armor points. Conj - Steel Skin, Fixed reduction of damage not based on armor points. These things in my mind are the things that piss many knights off, myself especially. I am supposed to be the tank but almost every other class has better true tanking skills especially now with Ao1 becoming even more situational based use. So either you need to give knights a true tanking skill on par with these spells. Or these true tanking skills that other classes have need to be completely changed and reworked to be Miss chance/Crit miss chance as what you want by Chilko's own post a knights tankability to be based on. Now I know other classes will hate this suggestion but that should just go to show you even more why it should be done. Make the tank a tank or make the rest be based on luck/chance same as the tank it is only fair.