There isn't much time left..

[Hell_bound]

Originally Posted by Godot

... MLK, yep he was killed for his belief that all people should be equal, I have no idea how that follows into Bobby Seal and the Black Panthers...

You have no idea?

They fought for the same cause, though they had different means...

I'm sure you know that though...

But sometimes it's the obvious that is over looked .

But regardless of their means they fought for the same thing, equal rights.

Originally Posted by Godot

... Unless the producder is trying to show contrast it demeans Kings message.

Yes, its about the contrast of their means, however, you are misguided to think that it "demeans" the message of MLK.

If anything it makes his message that much more powerful, for he died for what he believed in.

And in that video, he was the only one speaking calmly and without a violent persona, which cannot be said of Ali or the other African-American protesters (or even the African-American school children who act like an organized military group).

Originally Posted by Godot

... Ali was a professional athlete, he so abhorred violence that he refused to go to Viet Nam to fight.... and went to jail for it .

If I recall there were a lot of draft dodgers during the Vietnam war, and there was a reason.... the massive amount of dead Americans coming back. If I were Ali I would refuse too .

And remember... he is a "professional athlete" who got paid to beat the shit out of people. His "profession" was and still is violent.

Originally Posted by Godot

... Marx ,Lenin and Stalin seems like a bit of overkill...

It's important to note that I interjected Marx into this for two reasons: (1) The book 1984 is largely based on Marx's ideology, and (2) Lenin and Stalin both used a twisted Marxist ideology to create a totalitarian state with faint communist ideas.

That is Lenin and Stalin both used the verbiage of Marxism to compel the citizens to do horrible acts against their sisters, brothers, mothers and fathers. All in a belief that it would change things for the better...

Originally Posted by Godot

... none of the elected leadership in this country have ever called for class revolution on those scales...

You're right about the idea that none have called for a class revolution, but then the premise of the song, video and my brief essay were never about that...

It was first about the false consciousness paradox and second how we arrive to such a condition through indoctrination.

Originally Posted by Godot

... spun by an angry film maker with an agenda...

We all have an agenda, even you. As I quote you:

Originally Posted by Godot

I'm kind of old and actually saw many and participated in several; so I have a different perspective. I'll unwind this a bit out of order but since the video distorted most of it I'm sure that wont bother.

It just happens that your "agenda" is to share your perspective, or what you believe to be more true...

Originally Posted by Godot

...this video is a good example of why,its full; start to finish of misinformation.

You're 100% wrong to label this "misinformation" because if you are as old as you say you are then you are looking back without realizing the products they produced...

And because you look back you are tainted by the indoctrination you were given...

And even if you were able to see past that indoctrination and can connect the actions back then to the products of today, you still don't know what it means to be a byproduct of those products...

It's like the left over shell of what was a glorious thing, where innocence is no longer cherished and values have been replaced by dollar bills.

Thus old man your America is dying before your eyes and soon you will come to see the big surprise...

Originally Posted by Neil Young: Old Man

Old man look at my life,
I'm a lot like you were.
Old man look at my life,
I'm a lot like you were.

Old man look at my life,
Twenty four and theres so much more
Live alone in a paradise
That makes me think of two.

Love lost, such a cost,
Give me things that don't get lost.
Like a coin that wont get tossed
Rolling home to you.

Old man take a look at my life I'm a lot like you
I need someone to love me the whole day through
Ah, one look in my eyes and you can tell thats true.

Lullabies, look in your eyes,
Run around the same old town.
Doesn't mean that much to me
To mean that much to you.

Ive been first and last
Look at how the time goes past.
But I'm all alone at last.
Rolling home to you.

Old man take a look at my life I'm a lot like you
I need someone to love me the whole day through
Ah, one look in my eyes and you can tell thats true.

Old man look at my life,
I'm a lot like you were.
Old man look at my life,
I'm a lot like you were.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVC2cszdTao

Originally Posted by Skeeter Davis: End Of The World

Why does the sun go on shining
Why does the sea rush to shore
Don't they know it's the end of the world
'Cause you don't love me any more

Why do the birds go on singing
Why do the stars glow above
Don't they know it's the end of the world
It ended when I lost your love

I wake up in the morning and I wonder
Why every-thing's the same as it was
I can't understand, no, I can't understand
How life goes on the way it does

Why does my heart go on beating
Why do these eyes of mine cry
Don't they know it's the end of the world
It ended when you said goodbye

Why does my heart go on beating
Why do these eyes of mine cry
Don't they know it's the end of the world
It ended when you said goodbye

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePRZA...eature=related

[Godot]

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

You have no idea?

They fought for the same cause, though they had different means...

I'm sure you know that though...

But sometimes it's the obvious that is over looked .

But regardless of their means they fought for the same thing, equal rights.

No King fought for equality , Seal fought for supremacy.

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

Yes, its about the contrast of their means, however, you are misguided to think that it "demeans" the message of MLK.

If anything it makes his message that much more powerful, for he died for what he believed in.

And in that video, he was the only one speaking calmly and without a violent persona, which cannot be said of Ali or the other African-American protesters (or even the African-American school children who act like an organized military group).

it does demean the message, it reverses its intention to something hateful.
King never preached hate. He didnt die for what he believed in, he died
at the hands of a hater,believing in hate.

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

If I recall there were a lot of draft dodgers during the Vietnam war, and there was a reason.... the massive amount of dead Americans coming back. If I were Ali I would refuse too .

And remember... he is a "professional athlete" who got paid to beat the shit out of people. His "profession" was and still is violent.

he gave up that profession and went to jail for his belief that killing is wrong.
no one forced his opponents into the ring they went there for the same reason he did. Thats the difference.

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

It's important to note that I interjected Marx into this for two reasons: (1) The book 1984 is largely based on Marx's ideology, and (2) Lenin and Stalin both used a twisted Marxist ideology to create a totalitarian state with faint communist ideas.

That is Lenin and Stalin both used the verbiage of Marxism to compel the citizens to do horrible acts against their sisters, brothers, mothers and fathers. All in a belief that it would change things for the better...

1.why is it important to note some fiction of Orwells?
2.Putin and his ilk use capitalism to the same effect. Nothing has changed
there except who gets paid.

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

You're right about the idea that none have called for a class revolution, but then the premise of the song, video and my brief essay were never about that...

It was first about the false consciousness paradox and second how we arrive to such a condition through indoctrination.

false consciousness paradox ? and who would be the possesor of
real consciousness ? you perhaps ?
is this a comedy thread?

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

You're 100% wrong to label this "misinformation" because if you are as old as you say you are then you are looking back without realizing the products they produced...

because I look back on what I saw it didnt really happen ?
Dude surely you jest

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

And because you look back you are tainted by the indoctrination you were given...

And you can label and
diseminate that "indoctrination" in detail and accurately.
No please dont it wasnt an invitation.....
I'm starting to think you aren't joking.

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

And even if you were able to see past that indoctrination and can connect the actions back then to the products of today, you still don't know what it means to be a byproduct of those products...

hahaha, I'm not laughing with you.
I implore you sir; get back on the meds. soon.

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

It's like the left over shell of what was a glorious thing, where innocence is no longer cherished and values have been replaced by dollar bills.

Thus old man your America is dying before your eyes and soon you will come to see the big surprise...

Up the dosage.

[Greyman_tle]

Don't generally like getting into 2nd year Sociology projects, but I did what was asked.

I Watched the video with no sound, as this would have (by design) just distracted me from the story in the images. Music videos are a perfect cover for dual messages as they generally have a hypnotic effect on sections of the brain, due to the beat of the music....add repetative lyrics and you get a nice little link to the subconcious for a visual message.

Just your standard Republican advertising that having a black man running america will be the same as a comunist state (the Health bill has been descibed as such - Althou imo its about time america got some social responsibility), causing the white to become a poor underclass to a new black ruling elite.

Some of the people i admit i did not recognise, not being an American myself, but most of the repeated themes were easy to follow. - ( this is an open for me being a product to some degree of sumin or other.....well yep i am, as we all are - it's what make society cohesive, and is just a nessesary extention of the family group...)

Have to say, it was also predictable. After the initial lead in, i knew it would end with the shooting.
JFK is such a strong image for 'good' in the american psych.
Other countries it could have been jesus and the crusifiction.
The point would be the same...what come between these two images is the 'BAD' stuff.

A bit over done i think. But then I'm not the target audience.

[Hell_bound]

Originally Posted by Godot

No King fought for equality , Seal fought for supremacy.

The fight for supremacy is a fight for equality...

It's funny how you think there is a difference....

Originally Posted by Godot

...it does demean the message, it reverses its intention to something hateful.

No it doesn't, for anyone who knows MLK's message would know hate is not apart of his massage...

Originally Posted by Godot

He didnt die for what he believed in...

Now that statement right there demeans him...

Originally Posted by Godot

...he gave up that profession and went to jail for his belief that killing is wrong.no one forced his opponents into the ring they went there for the same reason he did. Thats the difference.

You can romanticize it all you want, but the fact still remains...

He dodged the draft and his profession was and still is violent.

Originally Posted by Godot

1.why is it important to note some fiction of Orwells?

One would have hoped that you actually sat through the the whole video...

Because if you did you would have seen that there was clips from the movie 1984 in that video.

Originally Posted by Godot

2.Putin and his ilk use capitalism to the same effect. Nothing has changed there except who gets paid.

Welcome to American capitalism, old man...

Originally Posted by Godot

false consciousness paradox ? and who would be the possesor of real consciousness ? you perhaps ?

The only way to arrive is to dig deep for the truth, something that I see is rare for you...

Each must come to on their own, but one thing is for sure...

You love to live in lies...

Originally Posted by Godot

because I look back on what I saw it didnt really happen ?

Experience does not automatically give you an entitlement to truth, often it merely disguises it...

Originally Posted by Godot

And you can label and diseminate that "indoctrination" in detail and accurately.

Anyone can disseminate, but first they must understand history...

Old man your vision of history is paved in lullabies that romanticize America...

But you will come to know the truth about America...

And when you do, I cannot wait to feel the horror pour out of you...

Indeed, broken souls like you will become very special when the time comes....

I'm glade we had this talk, for if nothing else to be able to mark you...

Muahahah!

[Godot]

hahaha, you really are a laugh riot.
I get it now , it was a troll post , has to be , nobody could be as
naive and foolish as you are pretending to be.

[Hell_bound]

Originally Posted by Godot

hahaha, you really are a laugh riot.
I get it now , it was a troll post , has to be , nobody could be as
naive and foolish as you are pretending to be.

A person who claims to be an old man, who is also an American...

Responds in hate...

You fail to exercise your right of speech by throwing insults...

Your action not only proves you lack a critical thinking mind, but that you also lack wisdom...

It will be a good day when I get to play with your soul...

I promise, I wont be gentle...

[Godot]

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

A person who claims to be an old man, who is also an American...

Responds in hate...

You fail to exercise your right of speech by throwing insults...

Your action not only proves you lack a critical thinking mind, but that you also lack wisdom...

It will be a good day when I get to play with your soul...

I promise, I wont be gentle...

I kind of doubt you'll ever get to "play" with anyones soul, if there is such a thing.

The book 1984 is a work of fiction.
Your disconnection with reality exhibits who is really lacking wisdom.

As for insults I'm old enough to be offended at being called "old man" , you
shouldn't be suprised when I throw them in return.

Regarding hate....hey yer the one listening to Manson songs not me.

yes I'm an American, I note you conveniently hide YOUR nationality.

I've become bored with this , you are dismissed.

[Hell_bound]

Originally Posted by Godot

I kind of doubt you'll ever get to "play" with anyones soul, if there is such a thing.

The book 1984 is a work of fiction.
Your disconnection with reality exhibits who is really lacking wisdom.

As for insults I'm old enough to be offended at being called "old man" , you
shouldn't be suprised when I throw them in return.

Regarding hate....hey yer the one listening to Manson songs not me.

yes I'm an American, I note you conveniently hide YOUR nationality.

I've become bored with this , you are dismissed.

We could go round and round forever in this little pissing match, but I care not too because in the end I will be proven right...

And because of that you will come to know four things:

(1) That America is indeed going to witness a collapse, and this has will affect the world...
(2) That you will indeed come to experience pain and horror from this...
(3) That there is indeed a thing called a soul...
And (4) I will indeed get to play with your soul...

Your time is near old (fake) man...
The question is, are you ready?

Muhahaha!

[Arafails]

Wow, and I thought I was full of shit.... I mean, are you even paying attention, Hell_bound?

Anyway,

Video's the sort of thing I've come to expect from Marilyn Manson... Nothing new to say, and not terribly interesting music either. I didn't really understand the links between some of the images, either.

[Greyman_tle]

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

(3) That there is indeed a thing called a soul...

Um, just 1 thing here...

No there isn't..there is no empirical, observable, or physical evidence of a soul. Even if your troll posting, don't bring supernatural mumbo-jumbo into the discussion. You talk about indoctrination and you appear to be indoctinated into one of the oldest lies used to control the masses.