Force Armour & Self defence

[Rising_Cold]

Originally Posted by Tamui

As for more 'self-defence', Anyone maxes WM Tree for health. Perhaps a better question is, what lvl do you normally carry the WM Tree?

Do you prefer getting more mental and perhaps Static Field instead?

I got WMtree at lv 19, +700 hp really can save ur ass
and I dont want to mess with my setup to get more mentals

static field might be fun to use in the current zergs, coz you can get closer to enemies
w/o getting insta dead reward

If I would play in the zergs.. I might even mess up my setup to check it out.. but.. yeah..

[starshine]

I tried force armor and i didn't notice any major change on damage... The damage from marks keeps being 600+, the damage from barbs keeps being 800+ ... But like it was said it is based on your armor and resists... and even tho i have good resists, i dont have all my gear lvl 60, so it is not so effective as to someone who has it lvl 60 with good resists...

Another inconviniente on that spell is the shinny image it gives to a conjurer... If conjurers are already first targets, if they dont try to be unnoticed by less shinny stuff around them, it will even be easier to target and instant dead.. because... Self heals on conju aren't enough to keep you alive, even with energy barrier, steel skin and mind blank... I usually use karma mirror when i have other skills on cd and i am being attacked.. it usually works fine and helps you to stay alive for a bit longer... Sanctuary is always my last spell ;D

[Kitsuni]

Force armor is actually pretty good with a decent set. The way the armor system works you can reduce low hits to almost nothing. This makes the Conjuror very resistant to Hunters and only decently geared Marks and Knights. But it won't do much against those marks that do 700-ish normals and 900-ish crits, that's true.

Karma mirror isn't as good as it appears. It only returns 30% of the final damage that the Conjuror receives, after armor and other buffs have reduced it. Reducing a hit of only 100 by 30% is pretty insignificant. Unlike Strategic position and Deflecting barrier, which reduce the incoming damage immediately.

One is great for archers and the other is great for Barbs.

[Enitharmon]

Force Armour is quite nice. I never used it in the past, but tried it for a while a few weeks back. Before they changed to that new map I would definitely have skilled it for TDM.
I would also include FA in a hunt/open field-setup, if I weren't too lazy to reskill for that...

The thing is, it's most effective against all those that are not barbs or boss-geared archers. Karma Mirror is better against those, though your best defenses will always be trees and range, as others said.
But though ones gut feeling may say otherwise, most archers are not bossgeared, so it's still quite beneficial to be able to tank them better.

Since I am too cheap to get both KM and FA at lvl5, I dropped FA. Unlike KM, FA is noticeable even on lvl1, but I found I were too busy casting other stuff to fit yet another self defense buff in there.
(And I like to get into the thick of warriors too much, so I need KM.)


After struggling severely with survival myself after coming back as a lvl50's non-WM conj, I focused on gear with good armour,resists and HP.
"Good" resists for me are mainly focused on slash/pierce, since again, most players do not deal a majority of elemental damage.
Since many care more about mana and CS, I got most cheap off the Auction House. Even without Force Armour I now have more AP than many barbs, and all G/VG vs slash and pierce.
And when I reskill, the first tree I max is the WM tree, +700 HP is impossible to say no to...

[Tamui]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. And feel free to mention any doubts here.

Lately, I've been playing WM 15, for the reason to get Time Master. Can be a life saviour sometimes, or stall the zerg at door.

Thing is, you cannot have both WM tree maxed and Mental 17 without sacrificing the other trees which, you all know, are all needed.

My resists aren't that of a grand deal, since I'm carrying Vesper Hat, All physical resists are Normal, which well, at least it's better than Bad I guess. I was using WM Tunic till now that I acquired a 7+ Const tunic with good vs pierce and normal vs slash and blunt I think.
As for the gloves, they're lvl50 to begin with and physical resists are Good, Bad, Bad, which is a sucker for resists but it contains 130 mana

So, if I had to use more AP and better armour resists, Force Armour will become more useful. Thing is, is it worth it to strip the bonuses?

There is mana pool but then there is always that powerpoint problem

Originally Posted by Enitharmon

And when I reskill, the first tree I max is the WM tree, +700 HP is impossible to say no to...

Lucky you, you can reach 5k hp

Since it seems I'm being very picky, I'll stop here

[Rising_Cold]

Originally Posted by Tamui

Lately, I've been playing WM 15, for the reason to get Time Master. Can be a life saviour sometimes, or stall the zerg at door.

Thing is, you cannot have both WM tree maxed and Mental 17 without sacrificing the other trees which, you all know, are all needed.

My resists aren't that of a grand deal, since I'm carrying Vesper Hat, All physical resists are Normal, which well, at least it's better than Bad I guess. I was using WM Tunic till now that I acquired a 7+ Const tunic with good vs pierce and normal vs slash and blunt I think.
As for the gloves, they're lvl50 to begin with and physical resists are Good, Bad, Bad, which is a sucker for resists but it contains 130 mana

So, if I had to use more AP and better armour resists, Force Armour will become more useful. Thing is, is it worth it to strip the bonuses?

There is mana pool but then there is always that powerpoint problem

Ive seen some great conjus time time master perfectly, but Ive always wonderd what they would do when theyd get WM
Time Master is amazing when a smart person has it in his/her setup
personally I leave it to the non-WM conjus and the locks, I would prolly waste the spell anyway

As for your armor.. keep on looking! It takes a while to get the stuff you need (and a lot of luck)
Guessing from how you are on the forum.. it shouldnt be that hard
I finally got all my gear at awesome lvl thanks to my generous friends <3

and yeah dont waste points on manapool if you can get those bonusses on your gear
because we already gotta sortout what spells to take..
(I would wait taking force armour if you consider it untill you get a tad higher lvl gear
also.. grats on the 7const tunic )

[Enitharmon]

If you're concerned about survival, dragon hat on a lvl60 mage is not helping.
Compared to a Great Healer with VG resist and 5-7% armour bonus, you'll take up to 50 more damage per hit wearing the vesper hat!

Gloves are not that important for armour, but I'd try to swap out those as well. At least get some nonspecial Great Healer stuff w/good resists for tanking, put them on the quickbar and swap whenever you need to put yourself in a dangerous position. I did that, and ended up just using the manaless armour 95% of the time. Playing conjurer with ~2k mana is really not that bad.

[Tamui]

Originally Posted by Rising_Cold

As for your armor.. keep on looking! It takes a while to get the stuff you need (and a lot of luck)
Guessing from how you are on the forum.. it shouldnt be that hard
I finally got all my gear at awesome lvl thanks to my generous friends <3

(I would wait taking force armour if you consider it untill you get a tad higher lvl gear
also.. grats on the 7const tunic )

Too bad generosity doesn't exist anymore in Syrtis. As always, ieti is right.
Oh and thanks

Originally Posted by Enitharmon

If you're concerned about survival, dragon hat on a lvl60 mage is not helping.
Compared to a Great Healer with VG resist and 5-7% armour bonus, you'll take up to 50 more damage per hit wearing the vesper hat!

Gloves are not that important for armour, but I'd try to swap out those as well. At least get some nonspecial Great Healer stuff w/good resists for tanking, put them on the quickbar and swap whenever you need to put yourself in a dangerous position. I did that, and ended up just using the manaless armour 95% of the time. Playing conjurer with ~2k mana is really not that bad.

I, honestly won't remove that hat as it is the best item I have got in this game....I think.
However I wouldn't think twice to remove and get a tunic with no special bonuses except for resists. And Gloves too I guess. My mana pool is always around 2.4k and 2.6k. I think I can get it under 2k but honestly, I may find it hard to play. Nonetheless I don't have passive mana, just gear and rings. I guess removing 130 mana for better part won't hurt.

Well I lent out the mana bracelet I had which was lvl45...I have a Great Healer bracelet with pretty resists. Almost had my hands on a great healer mana a bracelet with good resists

Again, I appreciate the feedback and feel free to post any doubts yourselves.

[clavinfay2010]

I personally prefer Force Armor over Karma mirror, cuz its long duration. I have tried both spells, i basicly surivived longer with force armor, with limited duration of karma mirror, this spell could well be on cd when u need it, a lot of times when u're low on mana, u can cast force armor 5 way before barrier 5, cuz of it's lower mana cost. I've played a lot tdm on my conj, when i buff force armor 5, i usually get 450-500ish, without it scales over 550 to over 600damage.
Like a lot ppl mentioned with Kama Mirrior 5 at 30% return damage is insignicant, all u need is a good set up, some good gears with good piecing and slashing resists and hp bonus, i use 2 constituion rings, somedays with MB, if i'm lucky enuff, i feel like a healing tenax, i dont invest a lot points on self-rege, I have self-heal at 4 or self rege at 2 that's enuff for me

[Phlue4]

Originally Posted by VandaMan

The way armor points work, force armor is increasingly effective when used with better armor. If your conjurer is geared with level 60 gear, all very good against piercing, I would guess force armor can be quite helpful against archers. Personally I prefer to gear my conjurer for health and mana instead, and find that humping a tree, rock, or fort costs less power points than force armor.

exactly.
But the more damage you get in, the less force armor serves.
Some players do 100ers on me, I can reduce them to 50 with force armor - but do I really need to? (rhetoric question )
Force armor gives you about ~~~~10% damage resistance against 400-700 dmg.
Definately not worth the skill points, I'd say.

edit. also read kitsunie's post. Noticed it too late - he more or less tells the same like me.

by the way, the reflected damage from karma mirror does definately not kill anybody, it's no danger for any enemy, that's true.
But 30% resistance against all kinds of damage is pretty nice.
Yes,

Originally Posted by kitsunie

Reducing a hit of only 100 by 30% is pretty insignificant

but if there are 10 archers making 100er norms on you (or just one barbarian doing a 1000 norm), you will only receive 700 damage instead of 1000.
Absolutely nice spell, if you ask me. Way better than material wall (apart from the duration), and everyone would skill material wall as a defensive buff if it were possible.