Most overpowered class?

[urgit]

Originally Posted by BlooD

I find funny how hunters agree on the excesive defense of the marksman but not on his own one.

What is wrong is all the evades and resists not the +% armor spell.

Masksman is an offensive class with more defense than defensive classes. This is the problem.

[CumeriTarenes]

OK, one last statement, since I feel like I have to response.

Well, I did not know that in the "1hp" case you get only rp for 1hp, but I think for XP it is not as far as I know. That's why I assumed it is the same with rp.

And, playing all classes...well....NGD should hire some test players, spend them 6 lvl 50 chars and they should try to fight one week each class and then say what class is better or not. But anyway, when you have balanced rp for powers you have an objective indicator of power. But you are not objective magnet, same as me. You just play a marks to proove how powerful they are. I am an archeaologist, and do you know what we always say? You find, what you want to find, and what you know about. You wanted to find an overpowered marks when you started playing it...and you found it. You were biased from the very beginning. Look at the poll results. In the opinion of most people marks are not overpowered, even tough people may be influenced by all your talking about overpowered marks.

Originally Posted by Valorius

Seems to me that a marksman with lvl 1 dual shot(125dmg +100%wpn dmg- 50mana), a good shortbow, and recharged arrows ALONE can match or exceed the firepower of a hunter using lvl 4 or 5 dual shot. Even just using lvl 1.

no, a hunters dual shoot is the same than a marks dual shoot, since weapon damage is the same. Recharged arrows only counts on basic attacks, not on spells weapon damage included.

[BlooD]

Originally Posted by urgit

Masksman is an offensive class with more defense than defensive classes. This is the problem.

The defense who archers have is so much even for an admin class.

A lot of hunters talk about marksmans defense and say: They have to remove strategic position!.

The +% armor doestn make that huge difference, the problems are shared with the hunters on the evasion tree and they hace access to the same spells who make them nearly invulnerable if they have luck.

They have to fix things on the evasion tree, who is shared, not in the marksmans defense.

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

no, a hunters dual shoot is the same than a marks dual shoot, since weapon damage is the same. Recharged arrows only counts on basic attacks, not on spells weapon damage included.

The marksman as the warlocks and the barbs have a better modifier for his main attribute on damage.

With the same dex and bow a marksman will hit always more than a hunter.

[CumeriTarenes]

Originally Posted by BlooD

The marksman as the warlocks and the barbs have a better modifier for his main attribute on damage.

With the same dex and bow a marksman will hit always more than a hunter.

Sure about this? Cannot believe it, since my hunter makes not more damage than my marks at the same level. Also I don't notice a modifier when I am hit by hunters. And, as Valorius said in another thread his attack points in character window are almost the same.

[magnet]

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

And, playing all classes...well....NGD should hire some test players, spend them 6 lvl 50 chars and they should try to fight one week each class and then say what class is better or not. But anyway, when you have balanced rp for powers you have an objective indicator of power. But you are not objective magnet, same as me. You just play a marks to proove how powerful they are. I am an archeaologist, and do you know what we always say? You find, what you want to find, and what you know about. You wanted to find an overpowered marks when you started playing it...and you found it. You were biased from the very beginning. Look at the poll results. In the opinion of most people marks are not overpowered, even tough people may be influenced by all your talking about overpowered marks.

That's what most of the Balance team players do. They have chars in most or all classes and test them.
Rp will never be a good indicator of power because it would make the RP-award algorithm too computationally intensive and costly and it takes coding time better used balancing the classes.

I don't play Marks "just to prove" how powerful they're are. I played to make a mind and maybe think 'oh, well, as a matter of fact, they aren't". With my hunter I came to the conclusion that they were not overpowered, only the Evasion tree was, but they're too fast by 5% and some stuff like SotW+Camou shouldn't be allowed. I thought Knights were better than they actually are. I must say Marks are just how I expected them -- they are overpowered.

Since we're in a jobs-comparison now: I am a Computer Scientist -- as in mathematician working on theory of computation. My current job (equivalent to the American first PhD year - research masters internship) is proving properties on mathematical models for computer programs semantics using proof-assistants (namely, Coq right now for those in the know). I have a background in logic (trained in a lot of different "schools" of logic) which is intimately linked to computer programs semantics. Just like with my views on Regnum (and others MMO since I started with UO more than ten years ago), my work is based on rational thinking and scientific approach.

I remember in 2000, in Ultima Online, there was an in-game demonstration against the removal of a game feature known as "precasting" which allowed to cast a spell, equip a weapon, then unequip and launch the spell. While it had been said by the previous and original UO Game designer (aka Raph Koster/Designer Dragon, best MMO designer ever) that it was a feature, a recent team change had it that it was now a bug to be removed. At the same time, a carebear, PvP- zone world was introduced. A lot of players, including me, left the game at that point. A few years later, precasting was re-implemented. This to say: it's not because they are game developers that they are right on balance. A lot of them aren't.

I would love to help NGD balance the game using an impartial machine. I could for example design, using a proposed modal logic, a model checkers which automatically defines values for spells/attacks so that no class is overpowered. Balance would be defined as a few logical formulaes such as "For all chars lv 50", "No ranged class should be able to kill a melee character before he reaches him". Parameters would be the complete set of skillsets possible to have for a level 50 of each class, speed players move, etc. Of course such a work would be fastidious considering the spectrum of Regnum, but I'll do it when I design the ultimate MMORPG . We can also use those model checking techniques to check on economy exploits ("you can't get money by selling what you just bought"). Btw I hate model-checking though

As it is I am convinced Marskmen are overpowered because of the Evasion tree, that fun is not equal among all classes, and I will showcase it with datas I'll collect and publish so that anyone tries to make their own statistics. I'll challenge anyone to find a very bad statistic for Marksmen.

PS: about the results of the poll, they don't mean anything except that I don't agree with most people here... Now look at the very same poll, Spanish side: http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...ad.php?t=21507

[BlooD]

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

Sure about this? Cannot believe it, since my hunter makes not more damage than my marks at the same level. Also I don't notice a modifier when I am hit by hunters. And, as Valorius said in another thread his attack points in character window are almost the same.

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...1&postcount=13

On the bottom you can see the bonus of each subclass.

Let me translate the warlock and marksman part for you:

Originally Posted by MegriM

Warlock and Marksman.
Each point of inteligence (warlock) and point of dexterity (marksman) give them an extra damage modifier. It means , the hunter and the conjurer will improve their damage too but less.

[CumeriTarenes]

ah, thanks blood. I did not know, thought it was just a modyfier for warriors. But why is the modyfier at warriors that big and for archers so low?


and magnet, I understand only half of the things you talked about, but I always thought NGD is using such a tool to balance spells/classes. But...it seems it is 100% balanced in an empiric way...too bad.

[urgit]

Originally Posted by BlooD

The defense who archers have is so much even for an admin class.

A lot of hunters talk about marksmans defense and say: They have to remove strategic position!.

The +% armor doestn make that huge difference, the problems are shared with the hunters on the evasion tree and they hace access to the same spells who make them nearly invulnerable if they have luck.

They have to fix things on the evasion tree, who is shared, not in the marksmans defense.

The +% armor can make important differences, but it depends on the archer armor and on the enemy weapon. For example, the damage of a lion using evasive tactics is reduced about 40%.

I agree net defenses should be fixed, but anyway, I think it is not logical than an offensive class have the same or even more defense than a defensive class.

[magnet]

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

and magnet, I understand only half of the things you talked about, but I always thought NGD is using such a tool to balance spells/classes. But...it seems it is 100% balanced in an empiric way...too bad.

Regnum is an homebrew game with a 5-years development. You can't expect that much. Of course if it were free software, at this point this game may be way better. I dunno how affairs would be for NGD though

[BlooD]

Originally Posted by urgit

The +% armor can make important differences, but it depends on the archer armor and on the enemy weapon. For example, the damage of a lion using evasive tactics is reduced about 40%.

I agree net defenses should be fixed, but anyway, I think it is not logical than an offensive class have the same or even more defense than a defensive class.

Of course is not logical, but a lot of hunters want the marksman defense nerfed only in strategic position because they dont want their own one nerfed. And that will not solve anything.

Thats why i said it was funny.