Knight's non-spring life

[DemonMonger]

Just allow knights to summon basic mount that gives + 10% mobility as a skill
Also allow knights to attack from this summon wth skills.
Also allow knights to stay on this summon until they reach 50% hp

problem solved

Knights have always been able to attack from mounts right?

[bois]

I too agree that Knight is probably seeing its best days ever.

I think how you fare in 1 v 1 depends a lot on your build, gear and experience. I would say that a knight has very good chances against any other class once it is purpose built. A lot of us tend to run around with the jack-of-all-trades build that may or may not be advantageous.

Like I said before, I miss spring but really my tool box of skills are the best they have ever been. I am comfortable trading it and a few other spells to have the ones I have now. It is the most flexible class in the game at the moment. I would go so far to say that it is also the most balanced class in the game now.

[Geev]

Originally Posted by Stooge1

Knight is totally fine as it is.

Yeah, I'm very happy with knight. I would make Intimidate a decent spell, however. Right now it is crap. A -25% speed penalty at level 5 would be fine. It would make it much more interesting for those kite-crazy speed-passive hunters you have no hope of catching.

[Signatus]

Originally Posted by Nekoko

1 on 1:

Knight/Archer: Stale mate or a loss, battle is in the Archers favour.
Knight/Mage: Warlock has the advantage, Warjuer might win.
Knight/Barb: Barb has the advantage.

Sure a lot of people will argue otherwise with me but this has been my experience fighting knights and being one. Lack of speed on a knight is the most frustrating thing and it's always amusing to have mages get away in open field battles.

You are right.

Originally Posted by Stooge1

Knight is totally fine as it is.

You are wrong.

Originally Posted by bois

I too agree that Knight is probably seeing its best days ever.

I think how you fare in 1 v 1 depends a lot on your build, gear and experience. I would say that a knight has very good chances against any other class once it is purpose built. A lot of us tend to run around with the jack-of-all-trades build that may or may not be advantageous.

Like I said before, I miss spring but really my tool box of skills are the best they have ever been. I am comfortable trading it and a few other spells to have the ones I have now. It is the most flexible class in the game at the moment. I would go so far to say that it is also the most balanced class in the game now.

You are wrong in your analysis, 1 Vs 1 knigts are screwed unless they hit lady luck, or the opponent doesn't know what he's doing. Against ranged we lack the speed and the CC immunity to reach them, against barbs it's luck based, MS or knocks over the protections, still they have the upper hand, barbs have more HP given their dmg then we do.

We are not even close to our prime. And probably we'll never be again. Our prime was when we would block 7/10. If you think that's OP (and it was) you must realize barbs only needed a hit to kill a knight (4.5k SC if I can recall on a lvl 50 knight is documented somewhere on this forum).

A knight speed in war is, realistically, -25%. Otherwise we spend our time knocked, ivyed and stunned. Even then we always eat a lightning arrow, slow, twister, ensnaring or, god forbids, caltrops. Point is, if we don't activate the CC resistances we are screwed, if we do, we are screwed.

We are indeed good at dying last and dropping auras. Well, it's better then it was before the knight overhaul, back then we were a 0 (though I would never admit it at the time!).

We don't need spring back, just ons affecting caster and on Vanguard, def support with the stance system and on Vanguard, kick on Vanguard (you can remove intimidate, rigorous and arcane const)... or any other efficient tools that allow us to lead rushes.

I was shocked on the other day when a guy said "Knights, heal!", that cannot be the destiny of my class.

Nevertheless: "Knights are the sexiest class in RO"!

[DkySven]

Signatus pretty much expresses what I think about knights, +1!

[Kitsuni]

Originally Posted by DkySven

Signatus pretty much expresses what I think about knights, +1!

Those are my feelings about the class as well, more or less.

[Envy]

Originally Posted by Signatus

You are right.



You are wrong.



You are wrong in your analysis, 1 Vs 1 knigts are screwed unless they hit lady luck, or the opponent doesn't know what he's doing. Against ranged we lack the speed and the CC immunity to reach them, against barbs it's luck based, MS or knocks over the protections, still they have the upper hand, barbs have more HP given their dmg then we do.

We are not even close to our prime. And probably we'll never be again. Our prime was when we would block 7/10. If you think that's OP (and it was) you must realize barbs only needed a hit to kill a knight (4.5k SC if I can recall on a lvl 50 knight is documented somewhere on this forum).

A knight speed in war is, realistically, -25%. Otherwise we spend our time knocked, ivyed and stunned. Even then we always eat a lightning arrow, slow, twister, ensnaring or, god forbids, caltrops. Point is, if we don't activate the CC resistances we are screwed, if we do, we are screwed.

We are indeed good at dying last and dropping auras. Well, it's better then it was before the knight overhaul, back then we were a 0 (though I would never admit it at the time!).

We don't need spring back, just ons affecting caster and on Vanguard, def support with the stance system and on Vanguard, kick on Vanguard (you can remove intimidate, rigorous and arcane const)... or any other efficient tools that allow us to lead rushes.

I was shocked on the other day when a guy said "Knights, heal!", that cannot be the destiny of my class.

Nevertheless: "Knights are the sexiest class in RO"!

As a knight that doesn't use Vanguard, you can understand my disagreement with the amount you want in that discipline

If you get in melee range of a target as a knight and play all your cards right you should kill them. However, if you make one mistake or they land a long cc they can choose to just flee, and will do so successfully.

[Gabburtjuh]

Originally Posted by Nekoko

1 on 1:

Knight/Archer: Stale mate or a loss, battle is in the Archers favour.
Knight/Mage: Warlock has the advantage, Warjuer might win.
Knight/Barb: Barb has the advantage.

Sure a lot of people will argue otherwise with me but this has been my experience fighting knights and being one. Lack of speed on a knight is the most frustrating thing and it's always amusing to have mages get away in open field battles.

I don't agree

Knight/Barb: A knight has the advantage, most barbs don't have def support, so that's a +for the knight, and PB+AO1 can help outlast UM+fulm, after that kick+feint(which I guess all knights have) and then PB will be cooled down again, ofc there are variations possible, but these spells are the backbone in a fight vs a barb for me

Knight/Mage: Warjurer is hard, mana burn and other stealers, loads of cc and maybe a summon, also quite good def, warju has advantage

Lock, kinda hard, esp with loads of mana stealers/burn, running after him with def stance and maybe def support will probably make you last till he makes a mistake though, fight is completly decided by player skills and resists.

Knight/Archer: Hunter, kinda easy petless, hugging a tree or something will atleast get you a draw, running after a skilled hunter is useless, knights should just not die to a petless hunter if not caught offguard with confuse etc, there are to many ways to keep yourself alive vs a hunter

Marks, depends, a skilled one probably won't lose, just putting def stance up and running after him(maybe other def spells to, caution, defl barrier), you should last till he makes a mistake unless he is skilled for high tricks or has very good gear.

[Signatus]

Originally Posted by Envy

As a knight that doesn't use Vanguard, you can understand my disagreement with the amount you want in that discipline

Don't you worry, at lvl 60 you can. The point of my argumentation is not making them Vanguard spells but making them Knight only abilities, I didn't suggest a move to Shields because that tree is ok imho.

Originally Posted by Envy

If you get in melee range of a target as a knight and play all your cards right you should kill them. However, if you make one mistake or they land a long cc they can choose to just flee, and will do so successfully.

If your ranged opponent plays his cards right, you never get into melee range unless lady luck shines upon you. My point wasn't what can a knight do at melee (the answer is, the same as a barb but softer), but the difficulties he has on getting there (zerg rushes aside and door fights), because the point of the thread was discussing spring (and that's what spring used to give us, an option to get into melee).

Originally Posted by Gabburtjuh

I don't agree

Knight/Barb: A knight has the advantage, most barbs don't have def support, so that's a +for the knight, and PB+AO1 can help outlast UM+fulm, after that kick+feint(which I guess all knights have) and then PB will be cooled down again, ofc there are variations possible, but these spells are the backbone in a fight vs a barb for me

Knight/Mage: Warjurer is hard, mana burn and other stealers, loads of cc and maybe a summon, also quite good def, warju has advantage

Lock, kinda hard, esp with loads of mana stealers/burn, running after him with def stance and maybe def support will probably make you last till he makes a mistake though, fight is completly decided by player skills and resists.

Knight/Archer: Hunter, kinda easy petless, hugging a tree or something will atleast get you a draw, running after a skilled hunter is useless, knights should just not die to a petless hunter if not caught offguard with confuse etc, there are to many ways to keep yourself alive vs a hunter

Marks, depends, a skilled one probably won't lose, just putting def stance up and running after him(maybe other def spells to, caution, defl barrier), you should last till he makes a mistake unless he is skilled for high tricks or has very good gear.

I'm sorry, what are you trying to prove? Because whatever it is you are doing it wrong:

a) Assume all things equal between the opponents: lvl, skill, gear, isp.

b) Assume an open field encounter, specially on the hunter case. Hunters decide who and when, if you assume that the hunter is rational he'll choose to strike in open field.

c) Assume your opponent is rational and maximizes his class efficiency to beat yours (because that's what you are commenting on, 1 Vs 1 against a knight). After that you can observe if the common builds do or do not have the skills that get you killed.

d) Be honest, specially with yourself.

Having said this I think it's outrageous that you affirm that a knight has an advantage against a barb.

1. A knight offensive skills are ALL shared with a barb, except one, shield bash.

2. A barb has, potentially, more CC resistances then a knight (UM + def sup).

3. A barb has all the CCs that a knight has, and on top of that, he has 2 ranged CCs, the highest dmg/knock and the highest dmg/dizzy.

4. A barb has more speed then a knight (spring 2 equals intimidation 5), this is specially important because allows him to control the melee engagement.

5. The ratio between the avg dmg dealt and opponent's HP is more or less 1/5 for a barb, for a knight against a barb is around 1/10, if not more.

With all honesty, do you think that a barb determined to beat a knight 1 Vs 1 won't have more and better tools for it then the other way around? The experience you collect on WZ only tells one thing, barbs can skill for different setups that fit player's needs and/or enjoyability, some of them are just not that efficient against knights (or they don't know how to use them).

Still, the point of this thread was spring, and I do miss what spring gave me, a tool to close into melee.

[Gabburtjuh]

I don't agree on barbs having a advantage because most of the setups, made for RvR, are not that effective vs a knight, even if they can decide to move out of a knights range, it doesn't mean they can kill him, atleast I have no problem at all facing barbs, in a RvR setup which is a support one, all I have as offense is kick and feint 4, balestra 1 and as buffs ao1, pb, def support and agile maneuvrers, and well, def stance, it's very usefull, if all your skills are on CD, the barb has UM or you barely have mana, you can put it up and lower the dmg taken while having a disadvantage

But yeah, the thread was about spring, and knights life certainly isn't easy vs ranged with spring, it's not near impossible either, atleast from my experiences.