Hotw should be adjusted - Page 3

Torcida · 10-11-2011, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Droc

Really sick of these 'nerf everyone but me' threads.

My main is a warlock So I do know what nerfing is

Psynocide · 10-11-2011, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torcida

Sigh since you simply don't want to admit you are wrong I have looked it up for you ; ''Player versus player, or PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants'' click Here

More than two players in a combat instance would be a loophole in the terminology that I dub "Assisted PvP", the point still stands that it is *player* versus *player* not player*s*, this is grammatically speaking, inflexible.
Assisted PvP would be defined as closer to RvR as it involves teamwork (to one degree or another).

I enjoy splitting hairs.

Torcida · 10-11-2011, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaacrulzrs2

More than two players in a combat instance would be a loophole in the terminology that I dub "Assisted PvP", the point still stands that it is *player* versus *player* not player*s*, this is grammatically speaking, inflexible.
Assisted PvP would be defined as closer to RvR as it involves teamwork (to one degree or another).

I enjoy splitting hairs.

A loophole in the terminology.... Yes it would be a gramatical mistake but this is how it works in reality is it soo hard to admit you are wrong?

bois · 10-11-2011, 12:31 PM

Horn of the wind: If the effect breaks on the first hit by the sped up player, this should be more than enough.
Indeed, that would be quite a lot and maybe too much if you add block and resists into the equation.
Personally, I would just leave it alone. If slows got some kind of nerf down the road, then this spell can be adjusted to suit.

As for this RvR vs PvP thing, these are just concepts and depending on the game or developer, the definition changes.
If I were to nit pick, PvP is 1 player versus 1 player. I could try to be ridiculous (as some posters here) and say that a group fight instance is actually PvP as well as you shift focus from player to player. You have multiple instances of PvP in a RvR or group fight which we really mean. This can scale to any size with infinite shifting instances of PvP in the chaos.
The only reason that it is actually called RvR is that gamers are separated by preset geopolitical divisions and fight based on allegiances to these divisions.
So , I could be equally ridiculous and say that a single player versus a single player of another realm is RvR. It is a realm member versus an enemy realm member. Because of the geopolitical divide this would be accurate to say.

Point ? The arguments are moot .

PvP : An interactive conflict between 2 or more live participants in a MMORPG. Any scale battle in this context is PvP. RvR is PvP. Group versus group is PvP. 1 vs 20 is PvP. Players versus Players is PvP. Any game where live players compete against live players (no matter how many) can be generally called PvP.

RvR : The players are divided into geopolitical organisations and fight over assets in the game based on these pre-set affiliations as set by the developers. Any scale battle between live players whose geopolitical affiliations are different is RvR. RvR is PvP. However, it is interesting to note that it can be opined that if the live players are not fighting over contested assets in the game, RvR does not occur. The definition states that RvR combat surrounds the contesting of these assets. The question is what constitute assets?
Conversely, one player can attack another player (aka PvP) but could been seen to be clearing or claiming territory (asset) which would then fall under the ambit of RvR.

This differs from clan versus clan where the players define the groupings and not the developers.
These differ from PvE where live players fight against AI controlled objects.

All of this is just to show that the definitions are damn vague and can be twisted to fit any context. I know I can twist it any way I like and not be wrong. Get over it and move on to less puerile debates.

_Enio_ · 10-11-2011, 01:15 PM

Maybe some sort of stamina bar added back, combined with activable "sprint state" which comsumes it, and offensive actions which bring you in a higher consumption state for some seconds could be used to get out of the fixed speed imbalances and a quite elegant solution to kiting (as the range would be in offensive state and consume more stamina while the melee would not).

Horn could then be changed to an area stamina regenerate spell or something, giving it more use for being offensive while sprinting, but not overpower speed when just running away.

Didnt put much thought in it yet, but it could eventually be worth to think about.

Psynocide · 10-11-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torcida

A loophole in the terminology.... Yes it would be a gramatical mistake but this is how it works in reality is it soo hard to admit you are wrong?

I'm not saying I'm wrong, I'm just saying you're not right

Quote:

Originally Posted by bois

As for this RvR vs PvP thing, these are just concepts and depending on the game or developer, the definition changes.
If I were to nit pick, PvP is 1 player versus 1 player. I could try to be ridiculous (as some posters here) and say that a group fight instance is actually PvP as well as you shift focus from player to player. You have multiple instances of PvP in a RvR or group fight which we really mean. This can scale to any size with infinite shifting instances of PvP in the chaos.
The only reason that it is actually called RvR is that gamers are separated by preset geopolitical divisions and fight based on allegiances to these divisions.
So , I could be equally ridiculous and say that a single player versus a single player of another realm is RvR. It is a realm member versus an enemy realm member. Because of the geopolitical divide this would be accurate to say.

Point ? The arguments are moot .

PvP : An interactive conflict between 2 or more live participants in a MMORPG. Any scale battle in this context is PvP. RvR is PvP. Group versus group is PvP. 1 vs 20 is PvP. Players versus Players is PvP. Any game where live players compete against live players (no matter how many) can be generally called PvP.

RvR : The players are divided into geopolitical organisations and fight over assets in the game based on these pre-set affiliations as set by the developers. Any scale battle between live players whose geopolitical affiliations are different is RvR. RvR is PvP. However, it is interesting to note that it can be opined that if the live players are not fighting over contested assets in the game, RvR does not occur. The definition states that RvR combat surrounds the contesting of these assets. The question is what constitute assets?
Conversely, one player can attack another player (aka PvP) but could been seen to be clearing or claiming territory (asset) which would then fall under the ambit of RvR.

It's circumstantial, basically.

Generally when someone refers to PvP though they mean one on one and Horn of the Winds use in this activity has been nullified.

It's just less of a headache referring to more than two players in combat as RvR, it also makes slightly more sense than the alternative - which obviously some find confusing.

Torcida · 10-11-2011, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bois

H
As for this RvR vs PvP thing

No need to waste any more time on this Player versus player, or PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants

Enough said go on-topic again please.

Seher · 10-11-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vroek

I dont know what NGD were thinking, i really just want to cry when i see a spell like this one implemented.

Would it be so damn hard ot make the spell deactivate on first impact?
It solves alot of problem right there.

I would even go one step further and make it deactivate if any spell or attack is used.
Just to make it a little harder to simply just escape with hotw every time you get in a little trouble.

I'd like that. HotW is just too easily spammable. No skill at all involved. It's OP, too, imo, but that's the main reason it deserves a nerf. Regnum is too much about buffing until godmode, you should always have to fear being mortal again, and not just due to mind squasher. (Confound those beacons)

Psynocide · 10-11-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seher

I'd like that. HotW is just too easily spammable.

The same could really be said of half the spells in Regnum.
For example, look at how many complaints of South Cross, Mind Squash, Defeaning Roar, Howl and knocks spamming you see per day.

So I don't think this is a valid point for nerfing Horn of the Wind.

bois · 10-11-2011, 01:41 PM

I thought of the stamina bar concept quite some time ago when archers were the fastest around. At that time I had the sinking feeling that NGD would not consider it although it would be the most elegant way to address speed boost/reduction and burst speed in this game.

Rather than kill your speed directly , you would then seek to kill the player's stamina or regenerative capacity of stamina as a way of slowing or controlling the opponent. Each class could then have stamina boosts and different levels of stamina either for burst speed or longer distance running. You could then also introduce boots with STAMINA stat on them.
A lot of work to design either way.

Maybe now is the time to consider this Enio. Good idea.

10-11-2011, 01:15 PM	#25
_Enio_ Marquis Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany Posts: 1,843	Maybe some sort of stamina bar added back, combined with activable "sprint state" which comsumes it, and offensive actions which bring you in a higher consumption state for some seconds could be used to get out of the fixed speed imbalances and a quite elegant solution to kiting (as the range would be in offensive state and consume more stamina while the melee would not). Horn could then be changed to an area stamina regenerate spell or something, giving it more use for being offensive while sprinting, but not overpower speed when just running away. Didnt put much thought in it yet, but it could eventually be worth to think about. __________________ Fix the Marksman subclass: Suggestion

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10-11-2011, 12:31 PM	#24
bois Count Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trinidad and Tobago Posts: 1,194	Horn of the wind: If the effect breaks on the first hit by the sped up player, this should be more than enough. Indeed, that would be quite a lot and maybe too much if you add block and resists into the equation. Personally, I would just leave it alone. If slows got some kind of nerf down the road, then this spell can be adjusted to suit. As for this RvR vs PvP thing, these are just concepts and depending on the game or developer, the definition changes. If I were to nit pick, PvP is 1 player versus 1 player. I could try to be ridiculous (as some posters here) and say that a group fight instance is actually PvP as well as you shift focus from player to player. You have multiple instances of PvP in a RvR or group fight which we really mean. This can scale to any size with infinite shifting instances of PvP in the chaos. The only reason that it is actually called RvR is that gamers are separated by preset geopolitical divisions and fight based on allegiances to these divisions. So , I could be equally ridiculous and say that a single player versus a single player of another realm is RvR. It is a realm member versus an enemy realm member. Because of the geopolitical divide this would be accurate to say. Point ? The arguments are moot . PvP : An interactive conflict between 2 or more live participants in a MMORPG. Any scale battle in this context is PvP. RvR is PvP. Group versus group is PvP. 1 vs 20 is PvP. Players versus Players is PvP. Any game where live players compete against live players (no matter how many) can be generally called PvP. RvR : The players are divided into geopolitical organisations and fight over assets in the game based on these pre-set affiliations as set by the developers. Any scale battle between live players whose geopolitical affiliations are different is RvR. RvR is PvP. However, it is interesting to note that it can be opined that if the live players are not fighting over contested assets in the game, RvR does not occur. The definition states that RvR combat surrounds the contesting of these assets. The question is what constitute assets? Conversely, one player can attack another player (aka PvP) but could been seen to be clearing or claiming territory (asset) which would then fall under the ambit of RvR. This differs from clan versus clan where the players define the groupings and not the developers. These differ from PvE where live players fight against AI controlled objects. All of this is just to show that the definitions are damn vague and can be twisted to fit any context. I know I can twist it any way I like and not be wrong. Get over it and move on to less puerile debates.

10-11-2011, 01:41 PM	#30
bois Count Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trinidad and Tobago Posts: 1,194	I thought of the stamina bar concept quite some time ago when archers were the fastest around. At that time I had the sinking feeling that NGD would not consider it although it would be the most elegant way to address speed boost/reduction and burst speed in this game. Rather than kill your speed directly , you would then seek to kill the player's stamina or regenerative capacity of stamina as a way of slowing or controlling the opponent. Each class could then have stamina boosts and different levels of stamina either for burst speed or longer distance running. You could then also introduce boots with STAMINA stat on them. A lot of work to design either way. Maybe now is the time to consider this Enio. Good idea.