Balance Update - Stage 2 - Implementation

[Seher]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

1 - It didnt state its better in any situation. There are situation where one is the best way but there are other situations too. You cant simplify that like that..

True, but most of the time it IS better. And most here seem to think nerfing is always the worst option.

Originally Posted by _Enio_

2 - The game didnt speed up. Ro was much more fast paced then it is now. It got slowed down heavily. Just think on added GCDs, cast time for ranged normal hits, removal of speed increasing buffs. Added casttime for lots of instants. General movement speed got increased, gameplay speed however got decreased down alongside with making fights last longer. So i dont understand that argument. By this logic knocks and cc duration should be increased right now.

Movement speed got increased. Attack speed got increased. Significantly! Really, you should watch old videos, how slow archers and warriors attacked back then! Let alone the new movement system... Strafing added a lot of mobility (and the ability to attack anyone in range without having to turn first), which means the immobility due to knocks is far more crucial. (This last one had the biggest impact, imo)

[Alenox_I]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

Hmm..
[x] Remove another option from my main class in trade for another boring passive (markx)
[x] Keep initial confuse problem strong

Im undecided about reducing knock and dizzy durations.
Over the last few months we get slowly but steady closer to situations where the main deciding factor is damage and numbers. The interaction might increase in frequency a bit but the dynamics decrease in quality alongside it.

How about reviewing excessive archer range? The intention to give more range for the loss of speed to archers had such a huge (and imho bad) impact on the whole RvR dynamics.

• The threat radius of a group so much increased hurting dynamics hard - you have to commit to an attack/rush wayy earlier now before you even can spot a good moment or attempt to make up a some smart tactics.
• It completely distorts balance problems, See Locks - range gap increased so greatly you got to change your playstyle completely (to an imho worse and less fun for both sides).
• See barbs whose open field capabilities due to UM timings got screwed up quite alot ( also have to commit to a fight way before they can get a good timing for i.e. UM)

Please at least analyze and think about reviewing that range.
It would include:

1. Reverting bows range to 20, 25, 30m
2. Reverting Winter Stroke range to 30m
3. Eventually revert Escapist to the old version where it could be used in close up situations to gain a speed boost, Intimidate on Barbs now should be enough of a counter to it (the escapist 25% speed increase was ~5s)

Thatd be my suggestion on getting back a bit of the more dynamic and speedy gameplay that got lost over the last few months.

it was 40%... (escapist).

[Latan]

a knockdown time reduction is absolutely needed, but a dizzy reduction should be well planned together with a general nerf in CC duration like 15 sec stun or 30 sec slowdown. for example beast attack should be HEAVILY nerfed in duration, bringing the chance to 100%, but some other dizzy spells could only be decreased by 1 or 2 seconds

an improvement for heal pet is absolutely needed

will be confuse reduced in duration? even only in hunters' hands, it's still a spell that totally disables 1 class and half (conju and knights) for 35 seconds

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by Seher

1) True, but most of the time it IS better. And most here seem to think nerfing is always the worst option.





2) Movement speed got increased. Attack speed got increased. Significantly! Really, you should watch old videos, how slow archers and warriors attacked back then! Let alone the new movement system... Strafing added a lot of mobility (and the ability to attack anyone in range without having to turn first), which means the immobility due to knocks is far more crucial. (This last one had the biggest impact, imo)

1 - Well this time it is not.

2 - I know those steps quite well, i playd alot back then. Highest gameplay speed we had right after the introduction of strafing though, from there it got slowed down with every patch. More as didnt exactly make it more fast paced, gcd and lowered damage balanced that out.

Anyway thats my experience.

@Alenox, Thanks your right. im getting old :P Edited.

[bois]

I am actually surprised that people could complain so quickly and so readily on such vague information.

I make an assumption: NGD is still working on single target spells. Everything so far suggests this. So areas like sultar, typhoon, Howl etc. are off the table for now.

With that said, NGD has not really said much more than we already knew. The question remains , how will dizzy and knocks be reduced and by how much?
Will it still have scaling duration or static one? Some other way?

They have not said. So it is a bit early to wind up the complaining machine until we actually know what they are going to do.

Lastly, NGD has said they will continue the balance in a more orderly fashion and more timely too. Why are the complaints coming in when it is pretty sure that this is not the last iteration by a long shot.
Damage will be addressed. Same goes for armour. Weapons too. Hit chance, miss and so on.

I am on the side of reductions but even I don't know what they have planned exactly. I will not jump the gun and rather wait to see though.

What is interesting is that they are trying this in an environment of a glut of points, especially power points. I still adhere to the fact that control via mana regeneration and scarcity of points will be a big factor in reining in runaway damage, armour and CC spells. I could be wrong.

[HidraA]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

t would include:

1. Reverting bows range to 20, 25, 30m
2. Reverting Winter Stroke range to 30m
3. Eventually revert Escapist to the old version where it could be used in close up situations to gain a speed boost, Intimidate on Barbs now should be enough of a counter to it (the escapist 40% speed increase was ~5s)

Thatd be my suggestion on getting back a bit of the more dynamic and speedy gameplay that got lost over the last few months.

+10000 I want my old escapist back......too much of dynamics of game is lost....need more run/fast combat than only hack&slash

[Pascher]

I totally agree with last post quoted.. entirely.
And if it would be up to me to decide what to change in balance stage as for locks I would add 1 skill that gives warlock immunity to dizzy for 10s. It would be like barb um but only for dizzy which stops lock dps entirely (staff dps is a joke). That would gave more dynamics to game because marksman would never know when lock decides to put dizzy immune on. And he could not just open fight with dizzy so simple.
10s would give lock chance to hide or sth. Fight with different classes wouldn't change much.
(hunter starts fights so lock can't expect it, barb and knight are close range so lock can't be sure when they decided to dizzy him, and lock vs lock.. idk)

[Seher]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

2 - I know those steps quite well, i playd alot back then. Highest gameplay speed we had right after the introduction of strafing though, from there it got slowed down with every patch. More as didnt exactly make it more fast paced, gcd and lowered damage balanced that out.

Anyway thats my experience.

Some part of the gameplay, let's call it flow of the game, slowed down a lot, got more boring, I know. (Somehow even due to long CCs, the imbalance between faster gameplay and still slow spells) But the intervals in which you do something, can kill something (=>barbarians!) clearly shortened a lot.
I played a lot there, too, by the way, and yes, I know you did as well, but memory can fool you. I was surprised when I watched some old videos. It was slow. I mean, really slow.

[Kitsuni]

I don't see how this update has helped Hunters in any way. Distracting shot (Stun) has not been nerfed, but Confuse has been moved to Scouting. This basically means that combined with Ambush nerf, Hunters have very little reason to get Tricks levelled up now except for OP stun, and still have no good way to interrupt opponents with a low tricks build as I stated in another thread. I don't see why it is so hard to see that this class is completely broken and well, to not break it even more. From this point on I foresee every single Hunter fight being Confuse and Distracting shot spamming (if they even have it)... at least in the past they would have other options.

Heal pet won't be useful in war or PvP, pets don't live long enough or do enough damage for 500HP? (at level 5?) to be useful, so this is as grinding buff only. And to be honest, I would rather have the ability heal other Hunters' pets than just an increase in range. Please give the Hunter more support roles.

Fix pets on fort doors, they stopped attacking doors after a while, making a Hunter completely useless there as well.

And will anything ever be done about Conjurors? There's barely any left, and they keep leaving.

Originally Posted by bois

I am actually surprised that people could complain so quickly and so readily on such vague information.

I make an assumption: NGD is still working on single target spells. Everything so far suggests this. So areas like sultar, typhoon, Howl etc. are off the table for now.

With that said, NGD has not really said much more than we already knew. The question remains , how will dizzy and knocks be reduced and by how much?
Will it still have scaling duration or static one? Some other way?

They have not said. So it is a bit early to wind up the complaining machine until we actually know what they are going to do.

Lastly, NGD has said they will continue the balance in a more orderly fashion and more timely too. Why are the complaints coming in when it is pretty sure that this is not the last iteration by a long shot.
Damage will be addressed. Same goes for armour. Weapons too. Hit chance, miss and so on.

I am on the side of reductions but even I don't know what they have planned exactly. I will not jump the gun and rather wait to see though.

What is interesting is that they are trying this in an environment of a glut of points, especially power points. I still adhere to the fact that control via mana regeneration and scarcity of points will be a big factor in reining in runaway damage, armour and CC spells. I could be wrong.

More timely? I don't consider "once or twice a month" timely when key spells are being ruined. During that time, players have to struggle just to win fights with what they have left before their better spells "get fixed" or "improved". It may not seem like long but an entire balance overhaul might take half a year even with timely updates, during which the players will be hard pressed just to make ends meet with their classes without resorting to mana dumping damage. This is terribly unfun.

I don't understand why try to sugar coat it when some things have been needed as much as years ago but still aren't done.

[NSer]

Originally Posted by Kitsunie

Heal pet won't be useful in war or PvP, pets don't live long enough or do enough damage for 500HP? (at level 5?) to be useful, so this is as grinding buff only. And to be honest, I would rather have the ability heal other Hunters' pets than just an increase in range. Please give the Hunter more support roles.

It's 1200-1300 on lvl5 But still cd and u need to select selct pet to cast it