RNG update at Amun! - Page 6

Hayir · 04-12-2015, 09:22 PM

Anyone know the barb dragon set? Has to be changed too.

Ludwig Von Mises · 04-13-2015, 03:22 AM

These are some of the pvps i did with barbs. All those resists were done while the barb was not on Unstoppable madness.

That barb Alvaro resisted my thunder twice in a row from the two pvps we had.

MedicAlert · 04-13-2015, 05:42 AM

Was trying a critical setup and seriously this is just bs:
http://i.imgur.com/mZIr4UL.jpg

kowocki · 04-13-2015, 06:31 AM

Try maybe next time without boss amulet, you will see the difference

.

On my marks critical setup works good tho i use 2xRoL and master archer amulet.

Most Bull...t we see when it comes to archer/warrior damage is the boss jewellery-was discussed many times, and its not subject to this thread.

MedicAlert · 04-13-2015, 08:09 AM

Heres the non-"skill" version:

http://i.imgur.com/o2vphRt.jpg

kowocki · 04-13-2015, 10:44 AM

1) doubt you got enough mana and time to buff up so much in normal fights (unless play safely in zerg)

2) what lvl was your opponent? was he/she using any defencive buffs? what lvl armor was he/she wearing

3) did you skill all passives maximizing the critical damage? (eg. duelist, trained eye) usually you have not enough: skill points, power points, mana to get all desired spells to have usable setup. Unless you drop some skill trees entirely like forget any tricks or evasion if want to max long bow+duelist lvl 4 from short bows and max recharged arrows and aiming mastery. Same goes to barb if want to have max passives for strenght and damage buffs etc.

second question is crucial, as:

A) my marks with similar dexterity and really good bow and good arrows and setup skilled towards normals barely pass 300 normals on lvl 60 opponents (some your normals are as high as my lethal strike 5 with buffs)

B) I saw "OP" screen shots made by lvl 60 guys showing OP damage on... unchallenging opponents/mobs (lol?) and on the other hand i saw once rage post made by lock who was complaining about resist spam (he forgot to mention he spammed spells on impossible/v hard mobs-100% troll)

Frosk · 04-14-2015, 06:56 PM

Hey all!

I'm dropping by to write down a brief explanation on what we're working on right now, which is what we're probably going to upload to amun very soon.
Remember that ALL of these are just ideas, that must be tested, and that whatever you read here must NOT be taken as something that will surely be uploaded to live servers.
Keep in mind that for these kind of tests is why we call Amun an experimental server.
One more thing: ALL values used in this text are given exclusively for explanatory purposes. They do not represent any changes or modifications to skills, equipment, attributes, etc.

Having said this, let's move on to the first topic!

Resistance, Evasion and Block Chance System:

Due to technical, interpretation, balancing and gameplay terms, we'll try out a different focus on this system.
This change will make combat be determined by only 1 layer of calculations to decide whether if a player must, for example, evade or not, instead of the 2 layers that's being used today.
The objective will remain the same: to make resistances, evades and blocks show up with a low rate, and that they can only change the flow of a combat situation (pvp or group) if they're triggered with the use of powers.

In order to quickly brief you guys up:
As Adrian explained somewhere out there in a post, to determine when a player must evade an attack (let's use evade, but it applies for the other 2 things) first checks if he/she has an Absolute Evasion modifier active.
If he/she doesn't, then checks the Base Evasion stat (the one given by items, powers, etc) and with this value decides the character's fate.
It's pretty complicated in a technical level, it's hard to explain ingame with simple feedback and... well it's basically annoying.

What we want to do is to simply reduce the whole system to 1 unique layer, easy to understand and "manipulate" from a user point of view, by using powers, items, builds, etc.

To achieve this, all pasive powers, attributes, and powers like Escapist, will give Absolute Evasion chances.
This means that the user will see a real % value, which will determine what chances he/she has to evade.
In other words, if your character has, let's say, 15% evasion chance, is absolute. You could practically evade 15 hits out of 100 incoming blows.
This does not mean that you're always going to evade 15 hits out of 100 attacks, but is a real percentage that shows you what are your probabilities.

This absolute evasion value will also be upgradeable of course by using powers such as Escapist.
If you have 15% absolute evade, and cast Escapist that grants 100% absolute evade, you'll end up with 115% (which is capped at 100%), and lets you evade everything.
The new thing about this is that absolute evasion does not need to be always 100%, as you can see in "absolute" powers now available in live servers. They can also be set with any other different value between 0 and 100.

This means that if we create a debuff that removes 8% absolute evade, if you had 15% you'll go all the way down to 7%.
If we create a buff that grants you 20% absolute evade, you'll end up with 35%.
As you can see, it's pretty straightforward.

Besides this, you'll also be able to porcentually enhance your absolute Evade chance, with other skills (non passive), like "Dodge", or by using items like leggings with Evasion bonuses.
Considering this, if for example you have 15% absolute evade and cast "Dodge", which has a +30% Evade Chance (Non absolute), you'll now have 19.5% Absolute Evade Chance.
This is because this 30% affects the base you already have. Since 30% of 15 is 4.5, then 15 + 4.5 = 19.5

The same goes the other way, if someone reduces your Evasion chance in 40%; it'll be 15% minus this 40%, which means 15 - 6 = 9

This way, the system is a lot simpler with just one layer. If an attack goes "through" it, it'll land successfully.
This will also allow users to see the real effect granted by equipping items with evasion bonuses, or how much does it affect things up to cast a skill like "Dodge", which almost no one uses.
Thanks to its simplicity, it also allows a more wide array of posibilities when setting up a new build, and it also helps us out to make easy and understandable decisions whenever a new OP power or subclass shows up (this may happen right now, specially in the archer vs mage scenario).

---

On the other hand, we're also working in everything involving Criticals.
There's a high chance we're not going to continue the Crit Dmg changes included right now in Amun, as they require a lot of work and fixes and time.
It's a pretty good idea to include sometime in the future, but it needs more attention and analysis.

As for now, we're solely working in Crit Chances. We'll upload changes related to this very soon.

---

Leaving behind some of this RNG stuff, and heading onto invasions, we're aware of several isses regarding, for example, the gem pedestal's player counter. This one, along with other already mentioned issues, will also be fixed in this update.

From today on and until the fix is live, if you find someone making use of the player counter exploit, please report it and we'll take the appropiate measures in one or more accounts, if needed.

Best!

Slartibartfast · 04-14-2015, 07:12 PM

Adrian, thank you for posting this explanation. One brief question:

What about mages? What about spell focus, concentration and intelligence attribute? Any use of it in near future? CoR is not all about warriors and archers.

Loque · 04-14-2015, 07:12 PM

One question relating to barbarians, what happens with Berserk? Since the spell is -100% evasion, so anything absolute or relative evasion stats/bonus he has is rendered useless using Berserk and no Berserk is pretty much no barb.

Awrath · 04-14-2015, 11:53 PM

I'll be honest, haven't actually tried out Amun, but I have just finished reading this entire thread!

Glad to see some work being done on RNG. There do seem to be mixed reactions to the current changes on Amun, so I'm looking forward to testing it out myself.

Main reason I felt I had to post was to get my two cents in regarding the critical chance thing, I am glad you are dropping that. It is the last thing we need in the current state of this game, as it will only further the gap in damage between mage and warriors/archers.

Keep up the good work, hopefully I'll have some more useful insights to the RNG changes once (or if) I bother to log on to Amun.

04-13-2015, 06:31 AM	#54
kowocki Initiate Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Poland Posts: 160	Try maybe next time without boss amulet, you will see the difference . On my marks critical setup works good tho i use 2xRoL and master archer amulet. Most Bull...t we see when it comes to archer/warrior damage is the boss jewellery-was discussed many times, and its not subject to this thread. __________________ Kyle Katharn (knight) Darth Malgus (barb) Marka Ragnos (Hunter)

04-13-2015, 10:44 AM	#56
kowocki Initiate Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Poland Posts: 160	1) doubt you got enough mana and time to buff up so much in normal fights (unless play safely in zerg) 2) what lvl was your opponent? was he/she using any defencive buffs? what lvl armor was he/she wearing 3) did you skill all passives maximizing the critical damage? (eg. duelist, trained eye) usually you have not enough: skill points, power points, mana to get all desired spells to have usable setup. Unless you drop some skill trees entirely like forget any tricks or evasion if want to max long bow+duelist lvl 4 from short bows and max recharged arrows and aiming mastery. Same goes to barb if want to have max passives for strenght and damage buffs etc. second question is crucial, as: A) my marks with similar dexterity and really good bow and good arrows and setup skilled towards normals barely pass 300 normals on lvl 60 opponents (some your normals are as high as my lethal strike 5 with buffs) B) I saw "OP" screen shots made by lvl 60 guys showing OP damage on... unchallenging opponents/mobs (lol?) and on the other hand i saw once rage post made by lock who was complaining about resist spam (he forgot to mention he spammed spells on impossible/v hard mobs-100% troll) __________________ Kyle Katharn (knight) Darth Malgus (barb) Marka Ragnos (Hunter) Last edited by kowocki; 04-13-2015 at 10:56 AM.

04-14-2015, 06:56 PM	#57
Frosk Banned Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 4,089	Hey all! I'm dropping by to write down a brief explanation on what we're working on right now, which is what we're probably going to upload to amun very soon. Remember that ALL of these are just ideas, that must be tested, and that whatever you read here must NOT be taken as something that will surely be uploaded to live servers. Keep in mind that for these kind of tests is why we call Amun an experimental server. One more thing: ALL values used in this text are given exclusively for explanatory purposes. They do not represent any changes or modifications to skills, equipment, attributes, etc. Having said this, let's move on to the first topic! Resistance, Evasion and Block Chance System: Due to technical, interpretation, balancing and gameplay terms, we'll try out a different focus on this system. This change will make combat be determined by only 1 layer of calculations to decide whether if a player must, for example, evade or not, instead of the 2 layers that's being used today. The objective will remain the same: to make resistances, evades and blocks show up with a low rate, and that they can only change the flow of a combat situation (pvp or group) if they're triggered with the use of powers. In order to quickly brief you guys up: As Adrian explained somewhere out there in a post, to determine when a player must evade an attack (let's use evade, but it applies for the other 2 things) first checks if he/she has an Absolute Evasion modifier active. If he/she doesn't, then checks the Base Evasion stat (the one given by items, powers, etc) and with this value decides the character's fate. It's pretty complicated in a technical level, it's hard to explain ingame with simple feedback and... well it's basically annoying. What we want to do is to simply reduce the whole system to 1 unique layer, easy to understand and "manipulate" from a user point of view, by using powers, items, builds, etc. To achieve this, all pasive powers, attributes, and powers like Escapist, will give Absolute Evasion chances. This means that the user will see a real % value, which will determine what chances he/she has to evade. In other words, if your character has, let's say, 15% evasion chance, is absolute. You could practically evade 15 hits out of 100 incoming blows. This does not mean that you're always going to evade 15 hits out of 100 attacks, but is a real percentage that shows you what are your probabilities. This absolute evasion value will also be upgradeable of course by using powers such as Escapist. If you have 15% absolute evade, and cast Escapist that grants 100% absolute evade, you'll end up with 115% (which is capped at 100%), and lets you evade everything. The new thing about this is that absolute evasion does not need to be always 100%, as you can see in "absolute" powers now available in live servers. They can also be set with any other different value between 0 and 100. This means that if we create a debuff that removes 8% absolute evade, if you had 15% you'll go all the way down to 7%. If we create a buff that grants you 20% absolute evade, you'll end up with 35%. As you can see, it's pretty straightforward. Besides this, you'll also be able to porcentually enhance your absolute Evade chance, with other skills (non passive), like "Dodge", or by using items like leggings with Evasion bonuses. Considering this, if for example you have 15% absolute evade and cast "Dodge", which has a +30% Evade Chance (Non absolute), you'll now have 19.5% Absolute Evade Chance. This is because this 30% affects the base you already have. Since 30% of 15 is 4.5, then 15 + 4.5 = 19.5 The same goes the other way, if someone reduces your Evasion chance in 40%; it'll be 15% minus this 40%, which means 15 - 6 = 9 This way, the system is a lot simpler with just one layer. If an attack goes "through" it, it'll land successfully. This will also allow users to see the real effect granted by equipping items with evasion bonuses, or how much does it affect things up to cast a skill like "Dodge", which almost no one uses. Thanks to its simplicity, it also allows a more wide array of posibilities when setting up a new build, and it also helps us out to make easy and understandable decisions whenever a new OP power or subclass shows up (this may happen right now, specially in the archer vs mage scenario). --- On the other hand, we're also working in everything involving Criticals. There's a high chance we're not going to continue the Crit Dmg changes included right now in Amun, as they require a lot of work and fixes and time. It's a pretty good idea to include sometime in the future, but it needs more attention and analysis. As for now, we're solely working in Crit Chances. We'll upload changes related to this very soon. --- Leaving behind some of this RNG stuff, and heading onto invasions, we're aware of several isses regarding, for example, the gem pedestal's player counter. This one, along with other already mentioned issues, will also be fixed in this update. From today on and until the fix is live, if you find someone making use of the player counter exploit, please report it and we'll take the appropiate measures in one or more accounts, if needed. Best! Last edited by Frosk; 04-14-2015 at 08:31 PM.

04-14-2015, 07:12 PM	#58
Slartibartfast Master Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Zagreb / Croatia Posts: 578	Adrian, thank you for posting this explanation. One brief question: What about mages? What about spell focus, concentration and intelligence attribute? Any use of it in near future? CoR is not all about warriors and archers. __________________ Slartibartfast / Slartibartflask / Phartiphukborlz / Slartibarbfast / Blart Versenwald :: The true Goat of Alsius CoR Sentinel

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04-12-2015, 09:22 PM	#51
Hayir Master Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 375	Anyone know the barb dragon set? Has to be changed too.

04-13-2015, 05:42 AM	#53
MedicAlert Pledge Join Date: May 2013 Location: Weaboo Land Posts: 37	Was trying a critical setup and seriously this is just bs: http://i.imgur.com/mZIr4UL.jpg

04-13-2015, 08:09 AM	#55
MedicAlert Pledge Join Date: May 2013 Location: Weaboo Land Posts: 37	Heres the non-"skill" version: http://i.imgur.com/o2vphRt.jpg

04-14-2015, 07:12 PM	#59
Loque Master Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 347	One question relating to barbarians, what happens with Berserk? Since the spell is -100% evasion, so anything absolute or relative evasion stats/bonus he has is rendered useless using Berserk and no Berserk is pretty much no barb.

04-14-2015, 11:53 PM	#60
Awrath Master Join Date: May 2010 Location: England Posts: 455	I'll be honest, haven't actually tried out Amun, but I have just finished reading this entire thread! Glad to see some work being done on RNG. There do seem to be mixed reactions to the current changes on Amun, so I'm looking forward to testing it out myself. Main reason I felt I had to post was to get my two cents in regarding the critical chance thing, I am glad you are dropping that. It is the last thing we need in the current state of this game, as it will only further the gap in damage between mage and warriors/archers. Keep up the good work, hopefully I'll have some more useful insights to the RNG changes once (or if) I bother to log on to Amun.