Combat system test - Amun - Phase 2

[Warthog]

Thinking on this all and testing some more just makes me not like this more. I don't want to play a static game where you need to stand still to do anything. Yes, warriors need help the way it is now, but changing the dynamics of the whole game to make it where you pretty much all have to be standing still to do things or running for your life does not seem fun. 3 ideas for quick easy, perhaps bad, but at least it could be tried solution to the way things are now.

1. Remove piggybacking attack + spell for archers.

2. Give warriors strategic position, perhaps with slightly less duration and longer cooldown then marksmen have.

3. Reduce the percentage of cast speed you get from Arcane devotion so a warlock with that and acceleration can not cast 3-5 spells before warriors can get near.

I know, it prolly won't happen since you put I would guess a good amount of time with this new combat system.....but I would much rather see you try these kinda small changes first before completely redoing combat system to where it forces static fights instead of dynamic and fast paced fights.



Edit: I thought of 1 more thing.

4. Restore onslaught to what it used to be but have it's affects only effect warriors.

[_Enio_]

From testing my marks for a bit today:

Nice
Got to say, with the changed faster 1st attack to balance the delay you get on start of attacks is really good. With fast bows its on a reasonable speed even allowing a quick shot between moving - still its hard enough to not makin it an easy strafekite. It feels more dynamic

minor issue
Missing feedback for Normal attack success (some castbar that shows the current state of the normal-hit-cast would help much)

suggestion
Add a castbar for normal hits. the bar should be empty when nothing is cast and fill up from 0% to 100% when you cast or do a normal hit. With current castbar you dont know where exactly is the "end"of the castbar.


problem with auto-stop on cast:
Currently we stop when we try to cast, no matter if the requirements for a successful cast are met (eg. out of range/target not facing/taget immune to spell etc). I recommend to change it so you auto-stop only when the cast really starts.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

I don't have to stop but I think that cancelling a spell or normal attack should be done in another way than moving, people still want to kite

[chilko]

Originally Posted by Angelwinged_Devil

people still want to kite

please guys, read what you are asking for: kiting is an exploit... Only ranged classes can kite... thats a big balance problem (for pvp AND grinding)

[Inkster]

Originally Posted by chilko

please guys, read what you are asking for: kiting is an exploit... Only ranged classes can kite... thats a big balance problem (for pvp AND grinding)

we had this conversation before when the backwards walking was changed
for the worse (which was promptly changed back)

Also warriors can kite using spears so no one loses out on that point

Please listen to the majority of players and dont make so drastic changes

-Regards

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by Angelwinged_Devil

I don't have to stop but I think that cancelling a spell or normal attack should be done in another way than moving, people still want to kite

I actually really like the feature to be able to stop a cast/attack. It allows to react on things around you better. (eg. You see a barb on fullspeed run on you - you can cancel you attack and react instead of waiting out the cast/attack duration (+ followup gcd in case of a spell)

I just miss proper feedback. [A fixed size castbar for normals and spells could even allow to take into account your ping (you can test when your spell shoots out without being cancelled and eg. Find out by trying that your cast goes out at 95% of the bar. That would even balance ping differences.]

[chilko]

Originally Posted by Inkster

Please listen to the majority of players and dont make so drastic changes

The vocal part of the community which is taking part of this tests and posting their feedback (to whom we are LISTENING) does not represent the majority of the player base.

the great majority that we also try to take into consideration is the 80% of users that register every day into the game and never return.

Additions such as strafing that you guys considered so negative when we implemented it, had a lot to do with us thinking in those users too.
Actually the real majority of the player base like strafing now... even according to polls in this very same forum.

[Inkster]

Actually strafing i don't like but im not forced to use it, also i see hardly anyone using that feature in game at all

As for the amount of registered users to people who actually play, a fair amount of people who no longer play were unhappy with some changes made to the game

(i have been told this by a LOT of people who no longer play)

Anyways im sure you have our best interests at heart

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by chilko

please guys, read what you are asking for: kiting is an exploit... Only ranged classes can kite... thats a big balance problem (for pvp AND grinding)

Well "kiting" is not an exploit, its a tactic. If you shoot a warrior untill hes near, then ambush him, run away and turn and go on shooting till he is near again it is kiting too. But what are ranged supposed to do vs a melee besides tactics like this? Outdmg him on melee fight? Its not an exploit, its a tactic to play. The warrior on his side tries to prevent this by knocking you down, slowing you down and getting you dizzy not allow me getting away to again shoot him from range.

Before we had a problem with kiting on almost full speed. Yesterday it was like when you shot you already had the warrior ON you dancing around you without a way to shoot him. today its a nice balance imo. It slows you pretty much down when you turn and shoot, still it feels much better then yesterday.


Edit:
If you "ban" all possibilities to kite AND makin ranged classes having malus on close combat - you can bury the class. Its the core of ranged classes - doing dmg without getting dmg -> Its core of ranged class to not let the melee class get near you in range vs melee.

You just got to balance the chances. Kiting was too easy - range was too fast while shooting back. Speeding up warriors wouldve been one idea but - you wanted range to be faster when fleeing. Slowing down the kiting process is the way to go and you successfully did it imho.

Offtopic: I always loved strafing

[chilko]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

[B]From testing my marks for a bit today:

problem with auto-stop on cast:
Currently we stop when we try to cast, no matter if the requirements for a successful cast are met (eg. out of range/target not facing/taget immune to spell etc). I recommend to change it so you auto-stop only when the cast really starts.

this was an oversight, it is now implemented in Amun.