Armor system explained

[LawZ]

Originally Posted by matias_barbaro

it is difficult to understand complex paragraphs in English for me.
I speak spanis. I just realized that I never get to understand the theory of katsuny.
by your words it is that I understand now.
but. Are u shure she say: - Σ[(Damage_Type_Percent)* ?

she never showed numbers or formulas or example ... I'm not sure she said - Σ [(Damage_Type_Percent) *

if she says that then
in fact, my theory is the same
I reduce the armor, not the types of damage...

"reduccion pierce= 204 *88.10%=179.724 resistence pierce damage"

204 resistence pierce damage for armor champion hunter (good for pierce)...

Yeah, she uses percent of each damage type to reduce the corresponding type of armor. Then she just subtracts the sum of these reductions from the total damage of the opponent.

Her explanation can be found here, although she hasn't placed any numerical example.

Best,
Dr. LawZ

[matias_barbaro]

Originally Posted by LawZ

Yeah, she uses percent of each damage type to reduce the corresponding type of armor. Then she just subtracts the sum of these reductions from the total damage of the opponent.

Her explanation can be found here, although she hasn't placed any numerical example.

Best,
Dr. LawZ

them, I agree

[matias_barbaro]

knowing this,
the best possible scenario would be:

have 2 types of damage:
1- primary damage of your weapon
2- The elemental damage to your enemy which has poor armor

diversify damage more than 2 types is irrelevant.

increase the percentage of elemental damage Vs primary damage, it is what you want.

know your enemy armor is crucial. It helps you to choose from: light, fire or ice.

Another important thing to note is: the archers benefit more having elemental damage.

barbarians have little benefit because of the large percentage of primary damage Vs 5-7% elemental damage. Really it does not affect much.

[LawZ]

Originally Posted by matias_barbaro

knowing this,
the best possible scenario would be:

have 2 types of damage:
1- primary damage of your weapon
2- The elemental damage to your enemy which has poor armor

diversify damage more than 2 types is irrelevant.

increase the percentage of elemental damage Vs primary damage, it is what you want.

know your enemy armor is crucial. It helps you to choose from: light, fire or ice.

Another important thing to note is: the archers benefit more having elemental damage.

barbarians have little benefit because of the large percentage of primary damage Vs 5-7% elemental damage. Really it does not affect much.

Alo.

I ll try to explain it without math because people do not like math (and I am also lazy).

Consider that you have only two types of armor, let's say A and B. Also consider that, for now, we do not have any armor enhancements or buffs. Of course you do not know how good / bad is the armor of the opponent on these two types. The only thing you actually know is that even if the good / bad type comes out randomly, the average resist grade of the opponent armor is "Normal", as is yours too. Actually all armor pieces have a "Normal" average, except old (maybe new too? - I have it on RuleZ but lazy to check at the moment) dragon armor.

Given that the armor average is "Normal", it can be proven (statistically) that in the longterm, i.e. in many different opponents as a total, the best thing you can do is to split your damage in half between A and B. That means 1/2 in both A and B. Now expand the above-mentioned theory in 6 types. So, for now, you have to split it in 1/6 per type of damage.

If we agree up until here, now we have to consider the armor enhancements and buffs. At the time being, the trend in armor enhancements by players is to place slash / pierce enhancements, while for buffs, there is better protection in physical over elemental damage (due to steel skin actually). If you take into account these parameters, then the best thing you can do is to split damage into the 3 elemental types and minimize the physical damage types as much as you can.

If you do all the above you are in a pretty good state, in my opinion. Now if you want to further optimize it, you need to take into account the WM armor that some classes (usually knights, maybe barbs too? - please confirm) use. WM armor has fixed resists, thus it alters the above statement. However, since players usually do not use that armor, you can just ignore this case and keep going with the previous conclusions.

Best,
Dr. LawZ

[Elva Hunter]

Originally Posted by matias_barbaro

knowing this,
the best possible scenario would be:

have 2 types of damage:
1- primary damage of your weapon
2- The elemental damage to your enemy which has poor armor

diversify damage more than 2 types is irrelevant.

increase the percentage of elemental damage Vs primary damage, it is what you want.

know your enemy armor is crucial. It helps you to choose from: light, fire or ice.

Another important thing to note is: the archers benefit more having elemental damage.

barbarians have little benefit because of the large percentage of primary damage Vs 5-7% elemental damage. Really it does not affect much.

I agree with you. Because i already had in mind what laws explained here but this after all, will not work in real combat as it does in the "math" why? simply....

if you have +30 damage of elemental in your bow and split it in 10 fire 10 ice and 10 lighting. and if your enemy own in order, of resists, normal, good, bad. you will make a total damage lower than if you put the entire 30 elemental damage in only 1 kind.

so if you use 30 fire damage, even if the enemy own good resists you will pass through it easier, specially with some debuf, than if you split. look, lets say that the resist "good" mean 25% more protection. will be 30 damage recuced by 25%. which mean that you do 22,5 damage of fire.

Of course if you find an enemy that have the entire armor good or very good to fire you will not be so efficient as would be but look, thats just a single enemy, the best way you build your char is making a general gear which can face usually mostly of the situations. with a focused elemental damage you can do very very well against some enemy armors and still regular against others, but you will never be in a bad situation, unlike you may will if you split your elemental damage beween the 3 ele kinds as Laws.

Also, beyond that, i don't know if is true, but once i saw someone speaking that the damage from your dex is made by the main damage which you have in your char. so, in easy words, this mean, that if you manage to increase your elemental damage in just 1 kind, and this total number, for example, 130 elemental damage, exceeds the total physical/piercing damage which you have, for example 100, then the damage that come from your dex will be elemental and no longer physical.

I don't know if this is true, but is an idea which i enjoy to follow, and that in some cases can explain kinda well why some players can hit so hard. and also explains how umbalanced the acess to damage in the 3 realms is.

For example, if the theory that i said above be true, the only realm that can turn the damage from an archer in pure elemental is Ignis; Alsius could too, but i am counting only the own realm Items.
So look, Ignis have tenax amy +50 fire, daen rings, 2x + 70 fire + daen bow (+32 fire?) idk plus can add +15 fire gem. so look the total (167 fire damage). brother, even if your dex dont become elemental fire with this, you will hit, in anyone, every very hard. thats why vincent valentine and others faggs like ichigo, could easily crit 800-900 on you even if you fully buffed. that's not question of abiliy, is question of be in the right realm and own the right items. why?

simply, if you are a Syrtian "rich", even if you wish so bad, you still can not do what i commented above. because vesper amulet is +50 lightning, and eve rings are 35 ice. just for this you are already in trouble, your damage will be 50- lighting resist from enemy gear and 70- the ice resist from enemy gear. plus, your total of elemental damage will never surpass your physical damage, once that it is splited.

This is other reason of why the wm jewelry helped alot to balance the things between the realms, because now you can choise your damage kind and focus on it.

So, good luck to everyone in making the builds and...Let's farm WMC!!! ^^


Kind regards,

Elva Hunter - Elite of Syrtis

[LawZ]

Alo.

I will try to explain it with a simple example.

Consider that we have 3 types, A, B, and C. The attacker can deal a total of 600 damage, while the defender is Good on A, Normal on B, and Bad on C, in order of course to have a Normal average, i.e. "Good + Normal + Bad = Normal". The damage resistance of these types for a full WM 235+10 archer armor are 255.43, 208.03, and 160.62, respectively. At this point I want to stress out that the above-mentioned values are real and correct, and have been calculated assuming real armor.

In the following figure you can see 4 distributions of the offender's damage. In the Red case he distributed uniformly, while in the remaining 3 cases he just picked one of the types. Results show that the uniform distribution (Red) is equal to picking damage type B (Green), because of the Normal average on armor. Picking A (Blue) yields to lower damage, while picking C (Magenta) to higher one.

The problem of course is that you do not know what the defender's resists are. So what I am saying here is to uniformly distribute it along all types, since this choice will result to the minimum volatility of your damage along different opponents and time. I am not saying that it will be the max you can do! I am just saying that you will have the less dispersion of damage, with minimum max/min damage surprises over time.



If you think of it really deeply, you will find out that there is no point on this whole discussion actually, since in the very very very longrun and always statistically speaking, you will find opponents with Good or Bad on one type, if you really select this one and only type. But the volatility of damage will be surely larger and more frequent over opponents and time. And this is something I personally do not like.

Best,
Dr. LawZ

PS. I am so happy when we discuss for such things and not for "who has it bigger", as I can see in some other topics.

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by Elva Hunter

I don't know if this is true, but is an idea which i enjoy to follow, and that in some cases can explain kinda well why some players can hit so hard. and also explains how umbalanced the acess to damage in the 3 realms is.

For example, if the theory that i said above be true,[...]

Its not, dex damage just scales on your dmgtypes distribution from gears (without dex dmg).



So if you have 20% ice dmg and 80% pierce from gears, then 20% of dex dmg will become ice and 80% of dex dmg will become pierce.

Exact:
  dex_dmg     = 130
  gear_ice    = 50
  gear_pierce = 250
  gear_sum    = 300

Resulting ice dmg from dex:
  (gear_ice/gear_total) * dex_dmg = 
               (50/300) * 130     = 21.6667 (exact: 21 2/3)


Resulting pierce dmg from dex:
  (gear_ice/gear_total) * dex_dmg = 
              (250/300) * 130     = 108.3333 (exact: 108 1/3)

As you see all 130 dex dmg is distributed to the same proportions of your 
gear distribution.

Resulting end damage including dex dmg would then be 
  (50+21.6667) ice and (250+108.3333) pierce
=     71.6667  ice and       358.3333 pierce

Total is, as expected, 71.6667+358.3333 = 430 = 300+130

Hinted on this here

Tests were done with mage and archer with very lowlvl items resulting in very low dmg from gear, i.e. total dmg from gear 5-7 pierce and 30 ice on target with and without elemental resistance. So the main added damage on target would come from the high dex dmg which gave clear result on the dmgtype of the dex contribution.
The difference on the target with and without elemental resistance allowed to calculate the proportion of elemental and normal dmg that arrived, which confirmed this theory of scaling of dex dmg on the same proportions of your dmgtype distribution from gears.

Best

[Elva Hunter]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

...

Okay then correct me if i be wrong, but accourding with what you said above, if i have 15% ice and 20% fire damage in my gear, and 65% piercing, then following the rule which you explained above, 15% o my dex will become ice, 20% fire and the rest, 65% will be converted into piercing right?.


Therefore, following what you said, still is the best way to focus in only 1 kind of elemental damage, and so, this give foundation for what I raised in the previous post that ignis players can have more elemental damage of the same type than the other players which end up allowing them to hit harder, don't you think? (speaking about old boss gear ).

Kind Regards,

Elva Hunter - Elite of Syrtis.

[Elva Hunter]

Originally Posted by JustTheLonelyOne

...

Not wanting to be rude bro, but i made a question to

Originally Posted by _Enio_

.

about what he said on the conversion of dexterity into damage.

You posted here about an subject that already been discussed further above.

The question which i made here to _Enio_ is no longer how you will do more damage or not because i know how it works. The question is about the conversion of dexterity in damage and how it works. if you can help with it then please feel free to contribute ^^

Kind Regards,

Elva Hunter - Elite of Syrtis.

[godismyjudge]

Originally Posted by Elva Hunter

The question is about the conversion of dexterity in damage and how it works.

Damage gained from dexterity gets distributed into all damage types you deal. How much damage into which damage type is converted depends on it's share in your total damage. So if you have 600 damage, 300 is pierce and 300 is ice, and you have 100 damage from dexterity, it will be 50 as pierce and 50 as ice. If you have 600 damage, 300 is pierce, 150 is slash and 150 is ice, dexterity damage will be 50 pierce, 25 slash and 25 ice.