Conjuror shortage

[Leadoffhitter]

Originally Posted by ljwolfe

"Marksmans are gods now, over rest of mortals. Max damage and nice protections, they can play as ranged barbs. They don't have to care about anything but mana!"

You really need to play one in rvr before spouting such nonsense. Everyone has good protection against arrows.

Some more nonsenses:

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...ad.php?t=15712


I hope they will help you to improve your marks...

Regards.

[Valorius]

IMO 'defensive' marksmen with all their defensive spells maxed are clearly overpowered. I can't even hit one of those for 90dmg with my ulber xymerald bow, even with 2x deadly sight rings equipped.

What possessed NGD to give marksmen the spell "strategic positioning" is beyond me. Hunters are said to be hard to kill, but a marksman gets significantly more protection than a hunter does, and even set up for defense, still has far more firepower than a hunter of the same lvl.

[Nikor]

Originally Posted by e30ernest

A Conjurer isn't the class to be if you are after personal glory in this game.

The glory in playing a conjuror is not expressed in RP. It's in the respect of the other players. When, after a good fight, people thank me either personally or even "the conjus", that means a lot more to me than a few points that can never really represent the true value of a player.

[Spud]

Boy, the ignorance displayed in this thread is beyond belief! Or perhaps you would like to forget as to why we are at such an impasse with conj's and the rest of the RO community?

The truth is conj's leveraged their healing powers, back when the game was beta and a bit after, against the rest of the members in their party. That is to say most of the time, at least in the parties I was in (if they were not the big exp parties that included 25 people or more - ah the good old days) if you didn't let the conj lead the group, which basically allowing them to pick which targets to kill and where to go, or follow the conj - the conj didn't heal you.

Part of this stemmed out fact that most conj's back then were warjurers and saw their pets as something better than having party members around who were always asking (demanding) for heals.

Which didn't make sense to those who understood the exp trade off for a solo'n conj versus a grouped one back then.

Anyways, after the group exp narf (having to do 10% dmg or more) the exp gain from group conj's stuck out like sore thumb and soon most of the warriors, knights or 'locks were claiming that conj's were leaching exp, but surprisingly never heard those comments coming from marks, hunters or barbs.

Funny thing is, those claims were mostly true because most conj's back then still had the warjurer mentality that solo hunting was better in exp and also free from the demands of party members.

But to the few conj's that knew their role, such as me Spud, these cries represented the beginning of the end of their loved conj character. And soon came the conj heal, buff and mana narf - where no longer could a conj gain exp from being solely a heal, buff, mana bot whore.

For me it was a lot of work being one of these whores, even in groups that consisted of only one other player besides me. Reason was because adds would often occur or people would be deliberately trying to take on more then one mob, there was always buffs that needed to be replaced and there was always healing - in short there was never any down time for the true conj (especially if the conj's goal was to always keep the people's health full, for adds were always a reality). Which made this way of playing harder then hunting solo! But most never really knew how hard it was really, because the good ones made it look easy.

And now we see who won this tug of war (the conj's vs. the other players of RO) that has existed as long as I can remember. And surprisingly it was the conj, for the conj has the best of three worlds: the conj has a pet, the conj has unlimited hp and the conj has unlimited mp. No other class can say that!

Originally Posted by Nikor

The glory in playing a conjuror is not expressed in RP. It's in the respect of the other players. When, after a good fight, people thank me either personally or even "the conjus", that means a lot more to me than a few points that can never really represent the true value of a player.

Anyone who believes this statement is a fool, for (1) very few people in real life are truly altruistic in nature and (2) NDG themselves have stated that RP's will allow one to buy things one day, or that there will be a purpose for RP's other then bragging rights.

What everyone needs to realize is that (1) people are going to play this game as they see fit, not how others want them to play. (2) things change in all mmo's and this one isn't any different. (3) NDG needs to stop listening to its player base on anything other than bugs because all vocal players that bich to NDG are only looking out for their own ass - not the good of everyone involved; and the results from this narf to the conj's main way to gain exp and rp's in parties is a clear example. And (4) NDG really messed up creating the conj, for it took money out of their pockets (or else the hardcores would be buying mana and health potions).

The conj's have won - it's clear now. And if I were in the position of being dependent on a conj (almost every class - I take exceptions on 'locks and hunter, marks) I would seriously start to be kind to them or stop bitching about this problem.

And since this truth has now been exposed, NDG you can now lock the thread!

[craiyzee]

Wow, that was brilliantly send.

[mann2411]

give this guy a fricking medal he must be like a journalist or something

[e30G]

Originally Posted by Spud

Anyone who believes this statement is a fool,

I guess that makes me a fool then. The characteristics of the class makes them almost surely bound to work in the background, silently turning the tides of the war without others noticing. Some people notice, and give conjurers credit where it is due. Believe me when I say that a simple "thank you" or "good job" after a grueling fight means more to some of us than any amount of RP.

Besides, a conjurer playing for RP only means he is not playing 100% effectively.

Originally Posted by Spud

What everyone needs to realize is that (1) people are going to play this game as they see fit, not how others want them to play. (2) things change in all mmo's and this one isn't any different. (3) NDG needs to stop listening to its player base on anything other than bugs because all vocal players that bich to NDG are only looking out for their own ass - not the good of everyone involved; and the results from this narf to the conj's main way to gain exp and rp's in parties is a clear example.

I agree with this. Unfortunately, I find it sad that this also means that most people will also not accept criticisms that would have given them an improvement because they are so hell-bent on how they want to play.

Yes NGD should lessen but not stop listening to player bitching. Players won't often have an objective view to things. However some will have valid points. It may be difficult but NGD should find a way to separate what is simple whining and suggestions that will actually help.

As for Conjurer leveling, unfortunately it seems that its currently easier to level a conjurer alone. However like what you said, its entirely up to the player whether or not he wants to level alone easily, or have the extra challenge of leveling in a group.

Originally Posted by Spud

And (4) NDG really messed up creating the conj, for it took money out of their pockets (or else the hardcores would be buying mana and health potions).

I don't think of it that way. People still buy mana and health potions even though the conjurer class exists. If NGD needed more money then they should have gone with better premium items with more choices. It can only be a premium that affects cosmetics. Of the many MMO's I have played, people buy premium regardless of their real uselessness other than make them look cool. Never underestimate the vanity of a person.

Originally Posted by Spud

The conj's have won - it's clear now. And if I were in the position of being dependent on a conj (almost every class - I take exceptions on 'locks and hunter, marks) I would seriously start to be kind to them or stop bitching about this problem.

The vast majority of players have been kind to me. In fact, the only time anyone got mad at me was when I was using a Zarkit on my noob days and it was hampering their targeting.

Most conjurers who seem to think people are rude to them are out for an ego trip IMHO. Yes you are the only one capable of healing allies, yes you can buff and give mana, but it doesn't mean you are any more important than the rest of the classes. Listen to the other players, learn from their "bitching" and improve your playing based on that. A little humility isn't bad.

Originally Posted by Spud

And since this truth has now been exposed, NDG you can now lock the thread!

What's wrong? This is a perfectly good discussion.

[ncvr]

Originally Posted by Spud

Anyone who believes this statement is a fool

Let us compare this statement with something else then.

Originally Posted by daresbalat

I get more rp playing effectively than....

Originally Posted by Spud

And since this truth has now been exposed, NDG you can now lock the thread!

This is a perfectly fine discussion. I see no reason to lock it.

Originally Posted by Spud

the conj has the best of three worlds: the conj has a pet, the conj has unlimited hp and the conj has unlimited mp. No other class can say that!

I could, for a short while when hunting in Ignis. And no, I did not have any support other than the Zarkit I stole.

Originally Posted by Spud

NDG themselves have stated that RP's will allow one to buy things one day, or that there will be a purpose for RP's other then bragging rights.

One day. But when that day comes NGD will start to seriously balance how much rp and xp conjus get from pure support.

Originally Posted by Spud

And if I were in the position of being dependent on a conj (almost every class - I take exceptions on 'locks and hunter, marks) I would seriously start to be kind to them or stop bitching about this problem.

This thread was not made because the conjurors were doing a horrible job. The poster originally was a conj but quit playing it, because of how NGD stuffed up the amount of xp or rp conjurors got by pure support in a group of any less than 6.

[Spud]

Originally Posted by e30ernest

I guess that makes me a fool then. The characteristics of the class makes them almost surely bound to work in the background, silently turning the tides of the war without others noticing. Some people notice, and give conjurers credit where it is due. Believe me when I say that a simple "thank you" or "good job" after a grueling fight means more to some of us than any amount of RP.

Besides, a conjurer playing for RP only means he is not playing 100% effectively.

I guess you are a fool, for as it stands today a conjurer that helps his teammates is not playing 100% effectively.

Why, because the goal of the game, as it stands today, is to gain exp and rp.

Suggesting that conj's should give up their right to exp, rp for recognition is saying to a conj that, "For you, conj, RO will be like a glorified chat client where maybe you can find friends by bending over and taking it for the team. And we know why you need friends, because you are playing the only class that isn't rewarded for grouping."

Originally Posted by e30ernest

Players won't often have an objective view to things. However some will have valid points.

There cannot be valid points without objectiveness, nor the experience of what it takes to code the game. Thus, your point here is invalid!

Originally Posted by e30ernest

However like what you said, its entirely up to the player whether or not he wants to level alone easily, or have the extra challenge of leveling in a group.

You know ernest, for the love of all that is holy, you fail to realize that that having an "extra challenge" without a benefit (exp, rp) will make most people turn away. And this existed even in beta, as I pointed out in my orginal post, when conj's saw a benefit to being a warjurer over a grouped conj.

Remember, relationships are about both giving and taking (even in virtual reality games like RO).

And where is the "give" here in terms of actual benefits to the conj for helping? Oh yes, a thank you and pat of the back, while you reap in all the exp and rp, whatever!

Its this short sightedness that on both sides (conj and everyone else) that led to this problem in the first place.

But you fail, again, to realize something and that is your short sightedness (as expressed in your statements) only reaffirm the conj' position to be warjurers.

If your as highly concerned about this issue as you say, you would be searching for a win-win situation. However, what you stated so far is hardly the advice to stick to for a budding conj.

Originally Posted by e30ernest

Never underestimate the vanity of a person.

And yet you respond like you do, talk about vanity! Please go back and reread my original post.

Claiming others to take it for the team, with getting no benefits is hardly showing yourself as team player (or nice person), now is it? Especially in a game that give benefits to team play, but for some reason now gives almost zero to conj's.

Originally Posted by e30ernest

The vast majority of players have been kind to me.

Of course, you letting them benefit substantially while you reap very little.

If I could maintain all the benefits in a two way relationship and have the other see it as a good thing as to why they receive little, I'd be happy with and kind to that player too!

And that was my main point at the end of my original post, but thanks for pointing that out.

Originally Posted by e30ernest

Listen to the other players, learn from their "bitching" and improve your playing based on that. A little humility isn't bad.

You fail to realize, yet again:

Why should a player listen to another, if what they are doing is what they want to do?

Why should a player listen to another if they receive little in way of exp/rp?

And why should a player listen another about game mechanics that will keep changing?


You know ernest, the more and more I see the logic behind your statements the more I see you taking the stance that:

RO is a team play game and that in order for a conj to be a team player a conj should accept the fact that they will be rewarded less then all other classes while engaged in team play.

To make such a statement fails realize 3 things:

(1) The historical perspective of how we arrived at this impasse, which I outlined in my original post.

(2) Your stance is counter productive for most conj's and in fact is not an acceptable solution to the impasse we face today.

And (3), in order for us to move past this impasse the best solution would be to give a benefit to the conj for engaging in team play and one that is better then what can be gained from solo.

Originally Posted by e30ernest

What's wrong? This is a perfectly good discussion.

Until all see this, there really isn't a need to discuss the issue is there?

[ncvr]

Originally Posted by Spud

I guess you are a fool, for as it stands today a conjurer that helps his teammates is not playing 100% effectively.

Define 'effectively' then please. It would appear that your view of it is different to ours. Quite obviously.

To you, effectively is getting the most rp and becoming the highest ranked conjuror in regnum, no?