Amun now open! - Dragon Caves

[kmdk]

Originally Posted by Linuxmage

Unfortunately, all this will do is crush the weakest realm even more. On Haven, Syrtis doesnt have enough people at any time of day to stop an opposing realm from taking the relics. Last night, after a lot of shouting and bothering, we got together 10 mid level people to try and stop Alsius trolling us with Herbred relic. There were just 3 level 60 players in that fight, and they had to be persuaded to join. It was effectively 8 Level 50's with default gear vs 15 level 60's with boss items. We were slaughtered, and had no way of keeping the relic. It took us the full 30 minutes to get enough people together to actually recap Herb, by which time the relic was long gone. All in All, Alsius held Herb for an hour, and that was after some of them left to troll with the relic.

People are despondent about fighting for relics now as it is, and Syrtis' population is at an all time low. The idea of having all 3 relics in order for the dragon instance to open will never happen in Syrtis, as Alsius will keep a team onside just to keep possession of our relics to stop us from having a dragon available.

The current situation of Playerbase in Syrtis is so bad that sometimes Syrtis wz is close to completely empty. When I logged in last night, there were just 3 people in the wz that we knew of. By the time I logged out, it had jumped to 15, but they were level 60 players logging in to sell remaining gear or their entire account.

I agree with argument , and i think the same new mechanics will not fit Haven at all.Anyway i still belive that Ignis will do it better because of highter numbers of barbs than alsius , but depends of time zone to.
One after others , it's not alsius fault about Syrtis low population it's not fair that blame alsius about this. They got farmed over years by syrtis ..

[andres81]

Originally Posted by Linuxmage

Unfortunately, all this will do is crush the weakest realm even more. On Haven, Syrtis doesnt have enough people at any time of day to stop an opposing realm from taking the relics. Last night, after a lot of shouting and bothering, we got together 10 mid level people to try and stop Alsius trolling us with Herbred relic. There were just 3 level 60 players in that fight, and they had to be persuaded to join. It was effectively 8 Level 50's with default gear vs 15 level 60's with boss items. We were slaughtered, and had no way of keeping the relic. It took us the full 30 minutes to get enough people together to actually recap Herb, by which time the relic was long gone. All in All, Alsius held Herb for an hour, and that was after some of them left to troll with the relic.

This is exactly the point why we need the dragons to be blocked without having all the relics. If you have enough level 60 players online that you can kill the dragon then this players should first do something to defend their realm! If you don't have 15 lvl 60 players online then it doesn't matter anyway because you wouldn't kill the dragon regardeless if you have the relics or not

[Shwish]

Originally Posted by kmdk

I agree with argument , and i think the same new mechanics will not fit Haven at all.Anyway i still belive that Ignis will do it better because of highter numbers of barbs than alsius , but depends of time zone to.

This will most likely drive most players who already do not have a level 60 barb to join the bandwagon and eventually all realms will have enough barbs. The direction the way the game is going, almost everyone will have a level capped barbarian alt because they are simply superior in ever facet of this game.

[ieti]

I see relic requirement only as good - it will drive realm to think for them before boss mobs. As a plus boss wh*res will need to help a little to be able to access the instance.

Do same for realm bosses too!

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This will give more barbs...other classes and especially mages will need their balance more than ever.

[bois]

Second look.
I understand that NGD is looking for the least complicated way to do this.

I am on board with the idea of requiring acts in war to be able to access the instance. Heck, I even suggested it over 2 years ago.

However, I think that the requirement of having all your relics to have the instance open is a bit over the top. This will probably be troublesome of every server and not only haven.

Using the relics is the least complicated way to do this for NGD. That is fine. However we got some issues.
1. Horsing with relic should be seriously reconsidered at this time.
2. Relics getting bugged in the ground needs to be addressed with haste.

Bugs aside, my fear is that this could lead to a few things.
Dampened interest in picking relics at all. The way the relic "capture the flag" game is allegedly going to be structured it is all about the defensive. It is about keeping your stuff. All intent and motivation to go out is reduced except for the trolling of other realms. Surely NGD does not want to encourage this.

Trolling. Instead of relic capture to invasions, we may have a situation where a realm may, on purpose not invade and keep relics just to disrupt the other teams. We may have a situation where a realm may just roll over and give up relics (risking invasion and reset) just to be able to have a window to get the dragons. A really negative outcome if you ask me.

Positive and negative feedback loops with perceived imbalances tipping the scales of what may be the best free gear available.

In the end, we may have less invasions and even more defensive and camping play. Heck , it may even get to the point of a "gentleman's agreement" that nobody takes anyone's relics for some time so that everyone has chances at the dragon instances. That would be legal and a total disaster for NGD's invasion system.

This thing needs an offensive and defensive component. Keeping relics is a must. But, should you require keeping all your relics ? I am thinking no.
I am thinking that maybe you need to keep two of your relics.
The third, can be any relic from one of the opposing realms. Seizing and placing this opposing relic will open the instance and it shall stay open for a time whether you lose it or not within that time. Mmm, maybe 1 hour max.

After that you need to go get another relic >>>> closer to invasion ( for you will have 2.) The third means invasion and the possibility of 3. below.

Of course, there is an opportunity to make a few sinks here.
1. Gold sink : players contribute to a kitty (the NPC) and once the target is reached, the NPC will open the instance to all for a limited time. This happens only a certain amount of times per week (maybe 1 or 2). Just to make it funny, each player is capped to one contribution and a limit to that contribution.
(titbit: NGD needs to consider the idea of a unified gold stash across account. Cap can remain 100 mil)

2. Gem sink. The NPC requires the payment, instead of gold, in low level magic gems. Yeah, those gems that we have choking our inventory in the hopes that NGD might make something of them.
The requirements are on rotation with the NPC requiring different gems each time. This is allowed possibly one time per week. No limit to contributions.

3. Successful invasion opens up a new wish for those invaders. Instance remains active for maybe 2 days, no matter the situation of your relics.

4. Unsuccessful invasion ( No portal opening or gemstone taken), the defensive team gains a bonus and their instance opens as a reward.
a. no gem taken no noble dead 1 day open.
b. no gem taken, noble dead 12 hours open.
c. one gem taken, noble alive. 6 hours open.
d. one gem taken, noble dead. 3 hours open.
e. both gems taken : closed
f. all gone : closed.

Chance of any of this getting implemented ? I am taking odds. 50,000:1 opening entry.
I am thinking there are a few holes in this hypothesis. Feel free to pick it apart.

[kmdk]

Originally Posted by bois

wall of text..

Why to complicate so much thinks ? Simply way is always better

[andres81]

Exactly, rules have to be simple.. if we have to read like 5 pages to understand how every function of this game works the fun is over

[Phlue4]

Good day dear Sir,
quoting is great.

Originally Posted by Frosk

Pretty nice analysis, but I'm afraid that you should not make assumptions like these, as they may end up being misinterpreted by anyone who may just happen to pass by.

Let's just try to go slow, alright?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Phlue4

note: Daen Rha, Evendim and Thorkul should at least be adjusted to lvl 60, PLEASE!!!!! SUCH a minor fix. Please change the level of the superbosses to 60 NGD. Maybe there should be even more changes, but the level is the most important one for now

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no?

[bois]

Originally Posted by kmdk

Why to complicate so much thinks ? Simply way is always better

What is so complicated? The idea that my explanation is long? Or that my explanation of potential problems is beyond comprehension? The lion share of the post discusses potential problems.

Short answers:
Stop horsing relics. Fix bugged relics. The second one should be on any to do list anyway.

I'll throw out the idea of the requirement to have an opposing relic despite the number of issues I raised which might become exposed when this goes live for a while. I really hope I am wrong on those concerns.
Throw out gem sink idea. That one is unnecessary.

Make a gold sink so that at least there is an alternate way to open the instances for realms unable to do so the conventional way on a regular or semi regular way.
We can upgrade forts and castles yes? That is a gold sink that is already deployed and proven. For the instance sink, they need not apply anything but unlock the instance (for a time) once the target gold amount is reached. Offer it one or two times per week.

What is so complicated about that ?

lol @ kmdk who complains once the horse is out the stable. At least I bring ideas consistently to the table despite my complaining. They may not work, they may not be deployed but at least a seed is placed in the mind of the staffers of NGD for their meetings. For me, planting those seeds are starting to bear fruit.

[Thrillem]

Originally Posted by kmdk

I agree with argument , and i think the same new mechanics will not fit Haven at all.Anyway i still belive that Ignis will do it better because of highter numbers of barbs than alsius , but depends of time zone to.
One after others , it's not alsius fault about Syrtis low population it's not fair that blame alsius about this. They got farmed over years by syrtis ..

I know I am a bit off topic but I want to comment on that last sentence.
Of course it's not Alsius fault that Syrtis is almost empty. It's nobody's fault, it's just accidentally. I have really no idea why this happened.
The thing is that about 75% -well, the great mayority- of the former Syrtians are now playing in Alsius. So, most of the former Syrtians just keep farming the other realms but now under the Alsius flag. Nothing has changed, just the colours.
On a side note. About that 'farming': Farming is just killing enemies and as this is a war game, there is nothing wrong with killing enemies. It is up to you to let yourself killed 100 times every day. If you are not a massochist then you quit the game, change realm or change server (like I did).