Rumor of lvl 60 in the future?

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Originally Posted by Valorius

A hunter is someone who actively seeks out game for the purpose of killing it. In this case, the game is two legged.

A hunter actively seeks out, closes with, and kills the enemy. That is about as offensive a role as you can get...regardless of what the manual may say.

BTW, hunters are anything but weak in fort fights, if properly supported. Anyone who has ever fought against Legolas I has seen what an aggressive, offensive minded and properly supported hunter can do in a fort battle. Legolas I can dominate a battle- i've seen him do it. And he is not the only one.

Valorius has most of the 'defensive' skills maxed, yet still maintains lvl 5 shieldpierce, lvl 5 projectile rain, lvl 5 break apart, lvl 5 ensnare arrow, and lvl 3 stunfist. As for defensive skills, son of the wind, the lvl 19 evasion skill, is everybit as much an offensive spell as a defensive one. Most of the time when i cast it, it is to close with the enemy and deliver a battery of lvl 5 attacks, as opposed to being used to aid in fleeing from a pursuer. What's more, lvl 5 acrobat, another evasion skill, adds +30% dmg resistance for 2 full minutes, for only 110 mana. Spell elude can deliver 30% magic resistance for 2 minutes as well. So while these may be 'defensive' spells, what they allow is offensive persistance. A knight has the best defensive armor in the game, but is by no means a defensive class...nor is the hunter.

if a hunter takes up all the support it really destroys the purpose of team work. to work together.
A hunter stalks which is defensive, and takes the target when it's most vulnerable, that's defensive, a hunter runs away if it's about to lose, that's defensive. If you play a hunter offensively you will be a scout running around with glasses and a heavy backpack

[daresbalat]

Yeha I've always mentally associated hunters more with the "Ranger" AD&D/general RP concept. A guardian of the woods and plains that looks after animals, has some natural affinity, has a familiar and knows a bit about fighting... but generally a jack of all trades, not a great fighter, an OK one though.

I think you're associating more with a "bounty hunter" kind of idea. Much more power, more of an assassin type thing. But I dont think this kind of char would have a pet, or nearly the range of defensive spells a hunter has.

Anyway, a hunter plus any offensive char, esp marksman is a great combination. I never see you hunting with any less than 8 people though so I guess it's not too important anyway

[Valorius]

Originally Posted by firstly

You're taking the word out of its context here: within the context of Regnum Online, a hunter is the defensive subclass of the archer class, it is a subclass which is built for tracking and scouting enemies; archers are built for ranged attack.

Sorry, i'm doing no such thing. A hunter, by definition, is an active stalker of game. One who seeks out his quarry with the intent of killing it. As offensive a role as exists. In regnum, a hunter is used in exactly that fashion. Either in a group, or as a lone stalker, he actively seeks out and kills the enemy, often in the enemies own homeland. A hunter is also extremely adept at filling the classical light cavalry roles because of their speed.

Originally Posted by firstly

You're right that hunters with the right setup can be useful in fort fights if properly supported, but that support takes the needed conjurers from the melee characters who guard the gate and the conjurers, and from the marksmen and warlocks who are built to be dealing big damage to keep back the enemy.

All classes have their uses and roles in fort fights, including hunters. It is up to the conj to know when to support who.

Originally Posted by firstly

This makes a fort fight with Valorius a bit of a nightmare to be honest, while the enemy start to push forward, we should be moving back,

Move back. A lot of times i stay out there to provide rear guard/security (hopefully you are familiar with the concept). A hunter with maxed evasion skills has the ability to escape from seemingly impossible situtatoins- like staying behind to cover the withdrawal of his comrades and still get out alive.

Originally Posted by firstly

letting the offensive characters do their bit to try and push them back, but mostly, characters have to stay out away from the fort to support Valorius.

Huh? If i am "out away from the fort", then the enemy is 'pushed back' already...

Originally Posted by firstly

A little unfair really when they ask you to step back to give the support classes some breathing space to be able to prepare for the wave of enemies about to push forward, but you don't, and usually suck up all the support and still die. Yes, very useful. A good use of a hunter's unique skills for the defending side. There are better ways of being effective in fort wars for hunters

Ah, you're talking about rear guard actions here. A lot of times when i die in those actions it's because my spells lag out or lock up and wont cast even though i've got more than enough mana to cast low profile or any of the other defensive spells that can get a hunter out of harms way in a hurry. SOme other times, it's because i stayed behind longer than i should have, to make sure my comrades had sufficient time to get back to our lines after a counterattack. Often, it is -me- that is typing in in caps, "ATRAS/FALL BACK!" and it is other even more aggressive players(and there are many), that are stilll pressing the attack, or lingering behind to get off that one last shot. Ther e are also some players that very foolishly start screaming 'fall back' the second our forces launch any counterattack at all.

Originally Posted by firstly

The knight is a moot point right now until their skills get sorted, yes, they're good for taking damage, but it takes an age for them to kill anything

Not if they're operating as part of a team. War is the ultimate team sport.

Originally Posted by firstly

they're really not an offensive subclass at all - have you tried playing one in a fort war?

I have many knights in my service in my clan. I have observed them closely in all forms of battles in regnum, and listened to their advice on how best to use them.

Originally Posted by firstly

Really all a non level 50 knight can do in a fort war is keep popping over the front line to get the warlocks and archers to direct damage at them to allow for the marksmen and warlocks to push forward a little without being targetted so heavily, or to try and reach a single target with the barbs so they can take the hits (if they enemy will then target the non damaging character) - a meat shield is all knights are right now.

Earlier you said a hunter that is set up for fort battles "takes away from the melee characters who are needed"...yet here you say that Knights are next to useless in fort battles.

Knights are useful in a variety of roles in a fort battle, and so are hunters.

[firstly]

Originally Posted by firstly:
You're taking the word out of its context here: within the context of Regnum Online, a hunter is the defensive subclass of the archer class, it is a subclass which is built for tracking and scouting enemies; archers are built for ranged attack.

Originally Posted by Valorius

Sorry, i'm doing no such thing. A hunter, by definition, is an active stalker of game. One who seeks out his quarry with the intent of killing it. As offensive a role as exists. In regnum, a hunter is used in exactly that fashion. Either in a group, or as a lone stalker, he actively seeks out and kills the enemy, often in the enemies own homeland. A hunter is also extremely adept at filling the classical light cavalry roles because of their speed.

Really, is there any point in debating with someone who doesn't comprehend the English language? The CONTEXT of the GAME is the important part of my message, if you choose to flit over and ignore important points in other peoples messages, then there really is no hope for a reasoned debate with you. So therefore, this will be my last message on the subject until you learn to comprehend (understand what is inferred or implied by the words used) the language you appear to have been taught.

Quarry for a hunter is not a fort war, hunting in Regnum Online, is about tracking enemies (yes, in their homeland sometimes) and hitting, running, hitting, running etc. not going to fort wars and standing in front of all the other Syrtians trying to be a marksman.

Originally Posted by Valorius

All classes have their uses and roles in fort fights, including hunters. It is up to the conj to know when to support who.

Quite right, then why do you private message my clan mate conjurer to let him know that you need healing when he's one of only 2 conjurers at the fort, is the only one outside of the fort, is only there because of the group who are around because another realm mate is still insisting on being away from the gate (hmm, can you guess who? ;P) and is solely supporting all the characters that were outside of the fort, as well as being targetted by the enemy himself at the time. Let me repeat, 'that support [which your hunter character requires during a fort war] takes the needed conjurers from [supporting] the melee characters who guard the gate ... and from the marksmen and warlocks who are built to be dealing big damage to keep back the enemy.'

Originally Posted by Valorius

Move back. A lot of times i stay out there to provide rear guard/security (hopefully you are familiar with the concept). A hunter with maxed evasion skills has the ability to escape from seemingly impossible situtatoins- like staying behind to cover the withdrawal of his comrades and still get out alive.

The rear guard is 'the division of an army that marches in the rear of the main body to protect it' I think you are getting this confused with the vanguard: 'fore guard' 'the troops who march in advance of an army, the advance guard'. The knight class is given a skill tree called 'vanguard', hence you can infer from this that those knights who use the skills therein are expected to be part of the advance guard of any army in Regnum Online (game ;P) Basically, you can't understand what it is to play a class from what others say about it, this is down to everyone having different cognitive models of enjoyment, basically, different ways of playing that will mean that certain classes and set ups are enjoyable while others are not. And while this is fine and dandy in most cases, in a team oriented game such as RO, it is usually considered a good thing to think of ones team mates (not only clan mates) when setting up ones character. Unless of course, you're only interested in RP, in which case a rather more selfish build is required, and of course, this is fine too, but then don't expect everyone playing the game to have the same cognitive model as you (i.e. enjoy only the sight of your own name going up in the RP rankings).

Originally Posted by Valorius

Huh? If i am "out away from the fort", then the enemy is 'pushed back' already...

No no, you misunderstand me, you are always (in my own experience) in the FRONT LINE (i.e. the line of characters directly facing the enemy with no one else inbetween them) while the enemy is pushing forwards toward the fort, and usually while the other Syrtians are wanting to move back.

Originally Posted by Valorius

Ah, you're talking about rear guard actions here. A lot of times when i die in those actions it's because my spells lag out or lock up and wont cast even though i've got more than enough mana to cast low profile or any of the other defensive spells that can get a hunter out of harms way in a hurry. SOme other times, it's because i stayed behind longer than i should have, to make sure my comrades had sufficient time to get back to our lines after a counterattack. Often, it is -me- that is typing in in caps, "ATRAS/FALL BACK!" and it is other even more aggressive players(and there are many), that are stilll pressing the attack, or lingering behind to get off that one last shot. Ther e are also some players that very foolishly start screaming 'fall back' the second our forces launch any counterattack at all.

No I am most certainly NOT talking about rear guard actions here. I'm talking about when you are IN FRONT of the main force of Syrtians (most of whom are calling 'ATRAS / FALL BACK' at the time). If your skills lock up again, try moving BACKWARDS towards the fort gate, or even going in the fort itself and type: '/unlock_powers'. (By the way have you ever heard the saying 'a bad workman always blames his tools'? ;P) Of course there are aggressive players in every realm who push out too far from the main force, not just you, but those players will find that when they do this, not only will they die pretty quickly, but their own conjurers will be unable to support them (i.e. keep them alive) or resurrect them when they die, therefore, one would hope, they may well learn from this not to move so far from their conjurers.

Originally Posted by Valorius

Not if they're operating as part of a team. War is the ultimate team sport.

Exactly, playing a hunter like a marksman (in my opinion) is not playing a team game, nor is constantly referring to anyone who disagrees with you as jealous of your rise up the RP rankings, but that is really another niggle I have, as I personally couldn't give a flying f*ck about RP, only about enjoying playing a game, usually with friends I have made here, sometimes against them.
Knights really do need a barb, marksman or warlock (one of the offensive subclasses in essence) in support to be able to do anything more than draw enemy fire, that's quite correct, but often in the heat of battle, it is difficult to find a use for my knight other than being a sitting duck in order to allow my realm mates to get a few extra hits (I may look suicidal, but unless I'm extremely bored, it's usually for a reason )

Originally Posted by Valorius

I have many knights in my service in my clan. I have observed them closely in all forms of battles in regnum, and listened to their advice on how best to use them.

Observing and playing will yield you far different results of opinion I can assure you It is a valuable tool on this game to be able to have 3 different characters in the same realm, and utterly fascinating as well as very useful in understanding war and how your character can best work as part of that team to be able to play 3 different classes.

Originally Posted by Valorius

Earlier you said a hunter that is set up for fort battles "takes away from the melee characters who are needed"...yet here you say that Knights are next to useless in fort battles.

Knights are useful in a variety of roles in a fort battle, and so are hunters.

Here is what I actually said: 'that support [which your hunter character requires during a fort war] takes the needed conjurers from [supporting] the melee characters who guard the gate ... and from the marksmen and warlocks who are built to be dealing big damage to keep back the enemy.'
(melee characters includes barbs, as knights are not the only warriors) This is of course, only from my own personal experience.
Isn't part of the fun of playing learning from others and tweaking your own character (or starting new ones) in order to best suit not only your own playing style, but your realm's? I can only speak from my own experience in fort wars of course and not hearsay.

[octopus]

Originally Posted by DemonMonger

i will record the damage done.. to prove to you its true...
damage =7422 and its just about 7 - 10 seconds depending on the mage and pre casts you can always recycle the spells...

First, the warlock will need some defenses to survive standing in the front row and casting a dozen offensive spells:

Energy Barrior *** 260 mana - 2.0 sec

Double-speed spell:
arcane devotion *** 175 mana

+ infuriate *** 160 mana
+ ele expos *** 200 mana
+ lightning damage = 240 x 5 *** 185 mana
+ ice blast 110 x 10 *** 185 mana
+ meteor duh... *** 220 mana
+ golem fist 1400 *** 500 mana
+ fireball 744 *** 185 mana
+ energy borrow 0 *** 0 mana
If above evaded:
+ ambitious sacrifice *** 0 mana
+ soul keeper 1000 *** 400 mana
+ Stalagmite 600 *** 160 mana
+ vampire drain 600 *** 200 mana

2830 mana, about 1000 more than a level 50 mage is going to have. You're going to have to add in an Energy Borrow in there, and hope it isn't evaded, and you'll need to do an Ambitious Sacrifice.

I come up with 12 to 13 seconds, assuming 50% reduction on all spells after arcane devotion. But add in some reality to this equation, like at least 1 second lag between each spell and it'll take you at least 30 seconds to get those spells off. If it is a bad lag day, 5 seconds between each spell. What will the enemy be doing while you're casting these spells? And in 15 seconds if someone casts Tremor or some other dizzy on you, or maybe 30 seconds for Darkness.

How many of your spells will be evaded? How much damage will armor or other defenses soak? There is no way a warlock is going to do 8000 damage in 7-10 seconds. Maybe 4000 damage in 30 seconds on a good lag day and if nobody opposes him, but I doubt that happens very often.