invasions and population

Recoil · 05-31-2013, 09:52 AM

Years ago, when the underpopulated realms were getting invaded, the game used to spawn guards and guard captains at realm gate to help the defending realm.

Nowadays, the realm that has a huge amount of people and is zerging forts gets a dragon to help them at gates, while defending realm gets nothing.

Tell me, what kind of sense does this make?

NotScias · 05-31-2013, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Recoil

Tell me, what kind of sense does this make?

None.

Welcome to Champions of Regnum !

bois · 05-31-2013, 12:48 PM

If you look at it in a vacuum it doesn't make sense.

However, I think I understand the reasoning. Like I said a few times now, the dragon is there mainly to force the invasion mechanism into a one versus one at the gate rather than a one vs one vs one or a two versus one situation.

The immense damage deters the third realm from massing on the gate and instead they must use sneaky methods and only go for noble. In a sense this works because the invaded would not be overwhelmed by the mass incursions of 2 forces at once.

The invaded defend and the ones who summoned the dragon attack. Third wheel realm sneaks.

The big issue most people have is the collateral damage that occurs because defenders (specifically warriors) have difficulty defending the gate from outside, while still reaping the benefits of hopping behind the gate if it is still up.
However, players can still defend if they hold the space between the gate and the second door.

I have observed this system for a while and while I am not the biggest fan of the dragon used in the way that is used, it works.
Still there are some issues.

The one that comes to mind is the capture of the gate itself. At this moment there is an issue of providing stops. When the invaders break both gates but don't capture, it is basically a freeway. My thoughts are for a slight adjustment. That is, to be able to use the inner gate , you must capture the gate complex. This allows for recapture by defending forces. It also allows for certain tactics by the third wheel realm too.

As for the defensive dragons , I see absolutely no need. The if a gem is taken, defenders could attack early and consistently to whittle away forces.
What remains is that the server is so weak for population at times that mechanisms break due to this. No invasion mechanism can fix that.

Recoil · 05-31-2013, 01:48 PM

I don't see how dragon with it's limited movement capabilities and range creates any substantial problem for the third realm. If they want get in, they will.

What dragon does, however, is put the defending (and presumably underpopulated) realm into a significant disadvantage because outer gate can not be defended by melee classes due to instant breath/stomp upon exiting gate, and because fireball/breath/stomp instakills defenders on wall, and because they are prevented from chasing the gem carrier once it exits the outer gate.

ieti · 05-31-2013, 01:50 PM

While i agree with bois for gates change i still do not see the use of Dragon. Lets see the 2 scenarios:

- Good populated server - every realm have alot, defenders do good to stop invaders, invaders do all to break gates. Forces are even or there is no so big difference. In this scenario even if third realm takes side this is not so big deal actually and this gives them role to sneak gem out and make things better.

- Weak populated servers - well here defenders are weak, invaders are big. In this scenario defenders have a chance to fight back at gate. Invaders are not protected. Third realm can take side to help or ally invaders. Again gem can be sneaked...

In both cases dragon protection is uneeded for me. In both cases attacker is protected which in fact does the opposite. Actually defenders are of need of help and protection. They actually need a CC dealer and helper - creature who aids them to defend gate.

--

Dragon which aids attackers is absurd. Call dragon of defenders, but make it react like old dragons - stomps and old dragon damage. This way knights can be used to help with auras and protection, conjus can outheal and so on. Again this can call some challenge for attackers.

If we do this in both scenarios things are alright - servers like RA it is the same. Servers like Haven dragon aids defenders and gives them chance.

Hollow-Ichigo · 05-31-2013, 02:39 PM

Yeah, giving the dragons at walls similar damage to when they were in realm would be a better idea than the current OP insta kills. Would also allow defending warriors to survive if they decide to rush outside the gate.

badassmaster · 05-31-2013, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollow-Ichigo

Yeah, giving the dragons at walls similar damage to when they were in realm would be a better idea than the current OP insta kills.

It's not so bad if your HP exceeds 57,000. At Alsius our HP rings keep us alive during Dragon attacks. It's all good.

Pnarpa · 05-31-2013, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stackoverflow

It's not so bad if your HP exceeds 57,000. At Alsius our HP rings keep us alive during Dragon attacks. It's all good.

This is true. I never die when the dragon attacks because of my +80 hp rings.

GrimNightfall · 05-31-2013, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pnarpa

This is true. I never die when the dragon attacks because of my +80 hp rings.

I know right? Every time I get attacked by the dragon I have 160 hp left, thanks to my +80 hp rings

On topic: I think this current invasion system works on Ra, but on Haven all it does is make it impossible to defend the gate.(incredibly bad thing considering the defending realm already can't take on the invading realm in an open field fight)

Simple fix : Defending realm should get either their dragon or warzone boss to aid them in defending the wall. (Bosses shouldn't use skills, only normal hits)

The_Pirate · 05-31-2013, 04:58 PM

I started playing last November, am a syrtis hunter (now there's a surprise class for that realm!).

I have only managed to be online for 3 invasions in that time, and I believe I play Syrtis' most populated time period. But I quite enjoy being outnumbered. It forces us to react and try different tactics and develop stronger teamwork. More importantly it makes every success all the sweeter for knowing the odds were against you from the start.

The dragon is rough for all the reasons everyone stated above. I quite enjoy it though. Syrtis has done really well (I feel) at stopping gems getting out even after the wall and gate are completely owned by the enemy.

The dragon might be OTT-OP, but the challenge is worth it. The satisfaction you get when you manage to stop a gem getting out - wouldn't drop that for the world.

Jarne

05-31-2013, 09:52 AM	#1
Recoil Master Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 335	invasions and population Years ago, when the underpopulated realms were getting invaded, the game used to spawn guards and guard captains at realm gate to help the defending realm. Nowadays, the realm that has a huge amount of people and is zerging forts gets a dragon to help them at gates, while defending realm gets nothing. Tell me, what kind of sense does this make?

05-31-2013, 01:50 PM	#5
ieti Count Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sofia, Bulgaria Posts: 1,374	While i agree with bois for gates change i still do not see the use of Dragon. Lets see the 2 scenarios: - Good populated server - every realm have alot, defenders do good to stop invaders, invaders do all to break gates. Forces are even or there is no so big difference. In this scenario even if third realm takes side this is not so big deal actually and this gives them role to sneak gem out and make things better. - Weak populated servers - well here defenders are weak, invaders are big. In this scenario defenders have a chance to fight back at gate. Invaders are not protected. Third realm can take side to help or ally invaders. Again gem can be sneaked... In both cases dragon protection is uneeded for me. In both cases attacker is protected which in fact does the opposite. Actually defenders are of need of help and protection. They actually need a CC dealer and helper - creature who aids them to defend gate. -- Dragon which aids attackers is absurd. Call dragon of defenders, but make it react like old dragons - stomps and old dragon damage. This way knights can be used to help with auras and protection, conjus can outheal and so on. Again this can call some challenge for attackers. If we do this in both scenarios things are alright - servers like RA it is the same. Servers like Haven dragon aids defenders and gives them chance. __________________ RA \| Ignis \| Lilla My \| Conjurer \| EVIL IGNIS ROCK Horus \| Syrtis \| ieti \| Conjurer \| INQUISITION \| LONG GONE Last edited by ieti; 05-31-2013 at 02:08 PM.

05-31-2013, 02:39 PM	#6
Hollow-Ichigo Count Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: United Kingdom, England Posts: 1,038	Yeah, giving the dragons at walls similar damage to when they were in realm would be a better idea than the current OP insta kills. Would also allow defending warriors to survive if they decide to rush outside the gate. __________________

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05-31-2013, 12:48 PM	#3
bois Count Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trinidad and Tobago Posts: 1,194	If you look at it in a vacuum it doesn't make sense. However, I think I understand the reasoning. Like I said a few times now, the dragon is there mainly to force the invasion mechanism into a one versus one at the gate rather than a one vs one vs one or a two versus one situation. The immense damage deters the third realm from massing on the gate and instead they must use sneaky methods and only go for noble. In a sense this works because the invaded would not be overwhelmed by the mass incursions of 2 forces at once. The invaded defend and the ones who summoned the dragon attack. Third wheel realm sneaks. The big issue most people have is the collateral damage that occurs because defenders (specifically warriors) have difficulty defending the gate from outside, while still reaping the benefits of hopping behind the gate if it is still up. However, players can still defend if they hold the space between the gate and the second door. I have observed this system for a while and while I am not the biggest fan of the dragon used in the way that is used, it works. Still there are some issues. The one that comes to mind is the capture of the gate itself. At this moment there is an issue of providing stops. When the invaders break both gates but don't capture, it is basically a freeway. My thoughts are for a slight adjustment. That is, to be able to use the inner gate , you must capture the gate complex. This allows for recapture by defending forces. It also allows for certain tactics by the third wheel realm too. As for the defensive dragons , I see absolutely no need. The if a gem is taken, defenders could attack early and consistently to whittle away forces. What remains is that the server is so weak for population at times that mechanisms break due to this. No invasion mechanism can fix that.

05-31-2013, 01:48 PM	#4
Recoil Master Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 335	I don't see how dragon with it's limited movement capabilities and range creates any substantial problem for the third realm. If they want get in, they will. What dragon does, however, is put the defending (and presumably underpopulated) realm into a significant disadvantage because outer gate can not be defended by melee classes due to instant breath/stomp upon exiting gate, and because fireball/breath/stomp instakills defenders on wall, and because they are prevented from chasing the gem carrier once it exits the outer gate.

05-31-2013, 04:58 PM	#10
The_Pirate Initiate Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 138	I started playing last November, am a syrtis hunter (now there's a surprise class for that realm!). I have only managed to be online for 3 invasions in that time, and I believe I play Syrtis' most populated time period. But I quite enjoy being outnumbered. It forces us to react and try different tactics and develop stronger teamwork. More importantly it makes every success all the sweeter for knowing the odds were against you from the start. The dragon is rough for all the reasons everyone stated above. I quite enjoy it though. Syrtis has done really well (I feel) at stopping gems getting out even after the wall and gate are completely owned by the enemy. The dragon might be OTT-OP, but the challenge is worth it. The satisfaction you get when you manage to stop a gem getting out - wouldn't drop that for the world. Jarne