Serious out-of-balance with hunters

[Comp]

Originally Posted by zielski

Till next time ;p
rule #11 never ever underestimate oponent.

NEVER....NEVER....EVER

[octopus]

Originally Posted by Solarus

The following skills are available for use to keep a hunter from using any defensive (or offensive) spells:

Conjurer:
- Silence
- Tremor

Silence: can't be cast while Confused.
Tremor: can't be cast while Confused.
While playing a conjurer, Confuse was almost always the first spell cast on me by hunters. Once confused, a support conjurer will be dead long before the 35 to 40 second Confuse wears off.
If by some miracle the conjurer resists Confuse, and manages to start casting Tremor or Silence, she will probably not finish casting those slow spells before she is hit with Ambush or the hunter moves behind her, and the spell is wasted.

Originally Posted by Solarus

Warlock:
- Meteor
- MOD

Meteor: Most likely will be evaded by a hunter. If it isn't evaded, the hunter can utilize their superior speed to either move out of range of the warlock, or move behind him, canceling his slow spells.
MoD: This spell is really nice, however it costs over 500 mana at level 1, and is very slow to cast. Chances are, a warlock will never finish the spell before he is hit with Ambush, wasting the spell. If the warlock is lucky enough to finish casting it, the graphical effects are obvious that it is on, and it's not difficult for a speedy hunter to stay out of range of this spell.

Originally Posted by Solarus

I'm actually quite happy that this thread has caused so much dialogue within the community.

I agree, Solarus. I'm glad you initiated this thread, and I appreciate your ideas and thoughts on balance. I respect your point of view (and Wudy's too), because you seem interested in the overall balance of the game, while many other hunters just say "stop whining" or "end of discussion" because they want to continue with their nearly invincible condition.

I have stated my point of view several times, so I won't go into details, but to me it seems that hunters now face almost no risk of getting killed. They can attack a party of 4 or 5, kill the weakest quickly, and escape with hardly a scratch. Most spells are evaded, they can very quickly get out of range of attacks with just their base speed, and can fall back on SoW and Camo if they start to take some damage. About the only time I see a hunter die is if the group contains hunters as well, and/or multiple barbarians who can Onslaught each other alternately to catch the hunter quickly. I think your suggestion would do much to balance things out again. Hunters would still be deadly, but would face at least some risk when attacking a group of enemies.

[CumeriTarenes]

Originally Posted by octopus

Silence: can't be cast while Confused.
Tremor: can't be cast while Confused.
While playing a conjurer, Confuse was almost always the first spell cast on me by hunters. Once confused, a support conjurer will be dead long before the 35 to 40 second Confuse wears off.
If by some miracle the conjurer resists Confuse, and manages to start casting Tremor or Silence, she will probably not finish casting those slow spells before she is hit with Ambush or the hunter moves behind her, and the spell is wasted.

support conjus are dead meat anyway when they face any class without allies. (except they face an enemy support conju )

And to confuse, you have a fair chance to cast tremor or silence before the hunter casts confuse on you. It is clear that the player which gets the first shoot has a big advantage. Since hunters are made for hunting they do the first shoot most of the time. The new camo even allows them to stand right behind you and you won't notice. These facts are ppl pissing off, they simply are frutrated because they died, without a realy fair chance to win.
And...if they manage to almost win the fight the hunter has a high chance (highest chance of all classes) to escape. This realy pisses many ppl off. They can hardly kill a hunterbut they are most often killed by them. But...this is how the hunter class is designed. You won't change anything with just some spell changes. Either you accept the hunter as it is or you have to change the whole class totally. What do you want a hunter to be? A marksman with crippled damage spells, a pet and tracking skills? Would be no fun to play a hunter then I guess.
Only change that is needed for hunter class is to cancel casting camo when under attack. It would prevent hunters from escaping every fight the hunter doesn't want to fight. As already mmentioned in another thread a hunter cannot cast sotw and camo in the middle of the fight because he lacks mana. But a hunter can use sotw and camo combination when he simply wants to avoid to fight. No other class can do. When the hunter does not want to fight he can track and he can run, since he is fastet class in game.

Originally Posted by octopus

I agree, Solarus. I'm glad you initiated this thread, and I appreciate your ideas and thoughts on balance. I respect your point of view (and Wudy's too), because you seem interested in the overall balance of the game, while many other hunters just say "stop whining" or "end of discussion" because they want to continue with their nearly invincible condition.

I agree too. Just telling stop whining will not solve anything. But only whining will sove nothing too.

[DemonMonger]

Originally Posted by octopus

Silence: can't be cast while Confused.
Tremor: can't be cast while Confused.
While playing a conjurer, Confuse was almost always the first spell cast on me by hunters. Once confused, a support conjurer will be dead long before the 35 to 40 second Confuse wears off.
If by some miracle the conjurer resists Confuse, and manages to start casting Tremor or Silence, she will probably not finish casting those slow spells before she is hit with Ambush or the hunter moves behind her, and the spell is wasted.



Meteor: Most likely will be evaded by a hunter. If it isn't evaded, the hunter can utilize their superior speed to either move out of range of the warlock, or move behind him, canceling his slow spells.
MoD: This spell is really nice, however it costs over 500 mana at level 1, and is very slow to cast. Chances are, a warlock will never finish the spell before he is hit with Ambush, wasting the spell. If the warlock is lucky enough to finish casting it, the graphical effects are obvious that it is on, and it's not difficult for a speedy hunter to stay out of range of this spell.



I agree, Solarus. I'm glad you initiated this thread, and I appreciate your ideas and thoughts on balance. I respect your point of view (and Wudy's too), because you seem interested in the overall balance of the game, while many other hunters just say "stop whining" or "end of discussion" because they want to continue with their nearly invincible condition.

I have stated my point of view several times, so I won't go into details, but to me it seems that hunters now face almost no risk of getting killed. They can attack a party of 4 or 5, kill the weakest quickly, and escape with hardly a scratch. Most spells are evaded, they can very quickly get out of range of attacks with just their base speed, and can fall back on SoW and Camo if they start to take some damage. About the only time I see a hunter die is if the group contains hunters as well, and/or multiple barbarians who can Onslaught each other alternately to catch the hunter quickly. I think your suggestion would do much to balance things out again. Hunters would still be deadly, but would face at least some risk when attacking a group of enemies.

its only a matter of lvl + high skill vs low lvl + no skill
the same thing you are talking about happened at ignis save with a (syritis
barbarian)
i the hunter wouldnt catch him... he ran and killed everyone... im sure ignis remembers these days of horror....

you complain about hunter running behind you....
there are several ways to solve this..
ILL HELP YOU THINK SINCE YOU ARE slow....
Mind push.... or slow ... solved.... mind push can be cast every 8 seconds...

you say meteor doesn hit the hunter to stop camo...
dude... you dont even need meteor anymore... change to a fast speed staff and just use basic shots... they will get through ....

I dont have problems with my warlock vs 1 2 or even 3 hunters....

again think.... you can drain life of pet when you get low.. and re barrier...
master of doom you COMPLAIN THAT ITS 500 MANA!!!! omg thats sad man... you can sap life to gain more mana.. or sap nearby enemies / monsters for mana... if you dont have the know how and ability to use your skills and adapt... then no matter what you are always going to suck....
all you have to do.. is wait for the hunter to cast ambush .. after he wasted it.. then cast master of doom.. I KNOW YOU CAN THINK TO DO THIS!!!... now i told you ... so you are welcome...

If you dont like spell elude... why dont you use staff mastery? ... it owns all archers marksman/hunter it owns knights/barbs... its just not great vs other warlocks... you must choose what you want to be good at killing... you cant dominate everyone with a single setup.... Complain again.. I suggest you grow and develop yourself.. or fall back into the line of rejects...

I am not saying don't change things because i want to keep my so called "god like powers"... Just wait until your class gets Dispell... its fast casting... you can spam it on the hunter .. all you need is 1 to hit... then the hunter loses all his defences... you can follow with vampire drain soulkeeper + barrier... drain mana.. and rape him.... stop crying... Warlocks and conjurers have way more power and abilities than a hunter...
The only dowside of warlock is that its slow at running... but guess what.. you can buy a horse! <OMG A HORSE!>

listen.. warlock vs hunter....

barrier first
vampire drain on pet as soon as you lose 400 life...
when the hunter comes in close to fist you dont panic... just recast barrier or master of doom
crystal blast on him and his pet as fist wears off....
by now you may have lost 1000 life.. so use soul keeper on pet... (its dead)
re barrier... hunter may try to camo....
(if the hunter stands still)
change to a fast cast staff <you should always use these in combat anyways>
just face him and basic shot it will pass through son of wind and cancel camo....

IF YOU HAD STAFF MASTERY SKILLS THE FIGHT WOULD HAVE BEEN WON BY THE WARLOCK IN 15 seconds.... and you have less to worry about with hunter running and camoing...
staff mastery 19
mental 19
necro 19
mana control 19 (second personal favorite)

try it... owns all

if you dont like this... try
element 19.... FIREBALL , MAGMA BLAST(or iceblast), LIGHTNING
mental 19 ... IVY AND MINDPUSH HERE!!!
necro 19 ... SADISTIC SERVANTS, SOUL KEEPER, VAMPIRE DRAIN
mana control 19 BARRIER, MANA BURN, and so on... (my personal favorite)

look at this as well... http://regnumonlinegame.com/forum/sh...096#post323096

[CumeriTarenes]

I don't know much about warlocks, so I cannot say much about your suggestion how a warlock can kill a hunter, but it seems pretty logical how you described it
What I almost never see happen is to drain mana and health from the pet...most warlock just rely on damage spells and cast them all on the hunter until he will die...or the warlock. Many warlocks don't care about own defence, and then they are saying archers defence is too powerful, because archers care about it. But that's another topic.


One thing I cannot go along with is this:

Originally Posted by DemonMonger

just face him and basic shot it will pass through son of wind and cancel camo....

camo casting time is 4,5 sec, in this time you cannot make more than 4 hits on the hunter. sotw has an evade chance of 98% (this is how it is said very often, I don't know realy about it...but it is a realy high evasion chance). You need to have very much luck if you want to get a normal hit on a hunter under sotw. For this I already suggested to cancel camo when beeing attacked. That would realy make sence in my opinion.

[mann2411]

awd ive told you time and time again hunters dont want to use shortbows the ones that do are really skilled players but the fact being that if a hunters sitting their getting shield pierced from 30 metres away he doesnt want to have to run up to him to be able to hit

the one tactic syrtis has ever needed was "wait for more people because more people are on their way wait for them" but no i get some spanish/english speaker to say this in spanish but no they run in get raped run back run in get raped continuously.

the only time ive ever seen this tactic work was when val was around and guess what we broke the gate within 5 seconds absolutly slaughtered alsius and lost no one

[Vaylos]

Well, on the whole escapist issue, why not just implement what every MMO and it's great aunt has done, and slow movement for all classes by 50% when their HP falls below 25%? This would make it MUCH harder for hunters (or any other class for that matter) to get away successfully if they wait too long. This also forces all classes to decide whether to fight or flee much sooner in battle, which means they have to realize sooner whether or not they are out matched. Otherwise, you're pretty much committed, for better or worse.

As for camo, I like the longer time, but I agree that it should be interruptable during casting, so it would be much harder to cast in battle. Also, seeing as it's considered offensive, it probably shouldn't be castable while under SoW. But I like the direction the hunter has taken as being more of a stealther class than it has in the past. We're kinda sneaky...a la Thief...at least that's how I look at it...

And for the record, though I'm only lvl 29 on my hunter, I'm still loving the shortbow. It complements my setup quite well so far. I may switch to a med speed longbow for war, but I don't know...I don't like the skill tree in longbow as much. ...might just throw some extra points into long to keep as a backup. Guess I'll have to test things later to see what works.

I have to say though, in past experience playing lightly armored classes (nightshade on DAoC) since we tend to take damage out the arse, evasion is key, although...it seems to me so far, that the way evasion is implemented right now is a bit.....wierd. It doesn't seem to be a steady thing, more like you either evade a heckuva lot in a fight...or hardly at all, and that seems wrong to me. I mean there should be some variation sure, but this is like night and day. Wonder if NGD over-engineered the dice roller. o.O I've always been fond of principles of KISS when it comes to random number generation. Nothing fancy, just make sure it -works- and that it -works well-

I might delete-recreate my barb as well, and take a more Dex oriented approach to see if that improves the evade rates a bit. -ponder-

[CumeriTarenes]

Originally Posted by Vaylos

Well, on the whole escapist issue, why not just implement what every MMO and it's great aunt has done, and slow movement for all classes by 50% when their HP falls below 25%?

good idea but it would make ppl with low hp even dieing faster because they are doomed with it. For melee classes in big wars this would be a realy bad advantage.

Originally Posted by Vaylos

Also, seeing as it's considered offensive, it probably shouldn't be castable while under SoW.

It is not necessary to change son of the wind. Just change camo that it's casting is canceled when beeing attacked. Same mechanism than when you try to log out while under attack.

[aric_swartzell]

How do people use shortbows? I guess it'd get better if I had rep shot. But I find the damage over time about the same, I can fire off more spells per amount of time...but I only have two damage spells to fire, so that's kinda moot. And the range is less. I must be missing something as several of the best hunters I know use shorts.

[ncvr]

Dual Shot can hit harder than shield pierce, it already does on my lvl 16 hunter...