New Balance Update: more adjustments and a new spell (phase 7)

[Gideon_Slack]

Originally Posted by Froste

While I'm really looking forward to this, there is one huge problem with it: Under the new mobile stalker, a gem carrier should not be affected by stalker.

Reveal is nice but it is insufficient to reveal a stalkered gem carrier; Every single hunter would have to stay close to the gate and shoot off overlapping reveals (which presents a minor issue with mana aswell), but the biggest problem comes when a reorganized attack force appears outside the gate, causing chaos and confusion, a stalkered gem carrier could easily sneak out that way. And a gem should never ever be that easy to get out.

It can easily be justified from a roleplaying aspect too, the gems being far too radiant and shiny thus being seen even if they tried to hide it.

Every defending realm should have the opportunity to retrieve their gems and I think if stalker affected gem carriers there would be feelings of utter hopelessness, that they didn't even get the chance to hit the gem carrier if he or she snuck out in that manner.

The problem with the gem carrier and Stalker seems to be the same problem with hunter pet and Stalker.

Maybe if Stalker is cast, the gem carrier, and all Pets would stay visible.

(Though maybe the Pet should just be dismissed under Stalker as it is with the new Camo. On the otherhand, perhaps the new Camo could conceal hunters, but leave their Pets visible without dismissing them).

[Froste]

That's not a problem exactly, that's is its intended function, even the pet being intended according to chilko's words. But whether it's intended or unintended that a gem carrier should be stalkered is irrelevant, because it simply shouldn't happen. You can stalker a gem carrier as long as they can't move, but once you add mobility into the mix then you can escape under it, and that just should not happen. Ever.

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by KryHavoK

Dead Eye still hasn't been brought up to the level of a useful spell.

Bringing the attack speed adjustment down to +15% at level 5 helped, but not enough.
The DPS of Normal attacks + DE lvl 5 tests out to only be at 105-110% of the Normal attacks alone. And unfortunately the DPS of Recharged Arrows + DE appears to be the same as the DPS of Recharged Arrows alone. So basically if you use Recharged Arrows, using DE is just burning mana for no reason.
I thought that maybe DE would be a good boost for Lethal Strike since it's damage is one of the +% types, but I saw absolutely no difference in damage with or without DE. (didn't see it affect any of the Marks tree spells that I tried)

I was thinking that Dead Eye was going to be something like a caster only version of the old Death Sentence, but right now it's just a spell used to make mana disappear. One more tweak please.

It probably works the same way as recharges does in the sense of not adding towardsthe damage of +%damage spells.

However i dont see why we need another damageboost for marks. we got like Recharged, Specialist, Maneuver, Dex passive, Dirty fighting(range malus) and now Deadly Eye (AS malus, leading to no actual increase in DPS).

Maybe completely rework this spell for something cool? something tactical and maybe fun? I miss some candy on marks beside the range. Just another damage boost.. old DS was way more interesting (especially with the Amun changes).


If you want to go the line of putting a Damage boost in there:

• You could add a mechanics adding a damage buff for 10 seconds for each shot (damage gain would be related to weapon speed to not make it more effective on fast weapons then on slow). like when you keep firing on a target you "load up" and get stronger attacks, i would reset after some amount of time.

If you want to adress mana issues on marksman:

• You could add a similar mechanics, giving you back some amount of mana when <insert something here>, add some kind of malus to balance it out.

You could also add some group support, or something completely new.
Or shift Reveal to marks? Problematic due to the lack of tracking capabilities but someting needed like this for the marks class would be great.

Something that makes em useful and wanted in evry war group. Just ranged support through normals and single target cc isnt enough to make this class more fun to play in my opinion.

[Dracice]

i like all changes , but Ao1 for only 10s for 400 mana ? one CC and knight is in ass or will be very hard surive 20s withnout Ao1 under attack(20s is just alot time to get 3hard hits from barb and die ,oh u nerfed barb dmg too aff ,but still alot time to get 4 hard hits and die ) , u should add duration or lower mana cost and CD

[Ulti19]

Does anyone know how the new block chance is calculated? They made knights block stats half of the live servers number but I don't understand how it works out or anything. Is there a new formula for blocking? It would be good to know how it works to see if precise and block is worth skilling after update.

[KryHavoK]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

...
However i dont see why we need another damageboost for marks. we got like Recharged, Specialist, Maneuver, Dex passive, Dirty fighting(range malus) and now Deadly Eye (AS malus, leading to no actual increase in DPS).
...

Maybe completely rework this spell for something cool? something tactical and maybe fun? I miss some candy on marks beside the range. Just another damage boost.. old DS was way more interesting (especially with the Amun changes).

...

Something that makes em useful and wanted in evry war group. Just ranged support through normals and single target cc isnt enough to make this class more fun to play in my opinion.

Couldn't agree more, DE just isn't quite working. Marks need something to be useful again.

[Aeacus]

I personally saw great potiental for DE but it has turned out to be another waste of manna. I think a little more tweaking could really add some fun. While on the issue of Spells to be fixed...i was wondering if manuever could be looked at? the increase in dex is great but i feel the CD hurts the effectiveness of it. Maybe change the spell to be a 40 duration 60 cd? keep manna cost the same so using it constantly would require a control of manna, or a conj I just feel like the 120 Cd is a very long time to wait for a spell with 40 sec duration. Just a thought, but agree completely with Enio, i would love me some good ol' fasion fun spells on marks again, ya know the ones that people are afraid of :P Just a thought...

[Ulti19]

A small problem on amun.

Right now if archer fights knight that is set up with def support 5 defstance 5 and spring 5 the archer cannot really do anything.

Me and Enio were playing around and it wasn't really balanced for him and quite unfair to a ranged player. With the 180 sec duration of defensive stance I was basically invincible when i used def support as well and spring.

Basically the new spell makes it hard or next to impossible to kill a knight with it for a ranged player. There has to be a way for range to counter this kind of spell or else there is an imbalance. If i am attacked in field by marks i can put the spell on and safely run forever because I can keep the spell up too long. The duration is 60 seconds longer than the cd so we can have it up at all times. However, this spell doesn't really do much against a barbarian attack lol.

The reduction in duration of ao1 and the insanely long duration of the new defensive stance aren't balanced. Maybe make defstance shorter and make ao1 abit longer to even things out. This would help because then ao1 would be used to tank melee damage(barbs cut through caution and defstance), and defstance can be used to tank archers but not forever.

* Also blocks are completely random and skills have no impact on them whatsoever. Using block 5 pb 5 and I block as randomly as if I have block 0 and pb 0. Block needs to be reworked.

[BigManOnCampus]

Army of One is not overpowered on the live servers. Where did anyone get this opinion? I cannot recall any situation where Army of One has saved my ass, and it's a level 19 ability. It is simply too easy to CC a knight down and outlast AO1, even at 50 seconds. Yes, I still skill it high (4 or 5) on the live servers, but I use it very selectively. In fact, Chilko, I would argue that AO1 is *ALREADY* a tactical-use spell, for knights that know what they're doing it is definitely a situational call.

Ten seconds would only be worth it if the cast time were instant, and the mana costs were reduced another 100 (making it 300 mana, or ~1/4th to 1/3rd of a knights mana). Half-a-second cast time makes me stop in a war to get it off, which makes me a CC target and making it easier to counter/interrupt.

AO1's great equalizing power was to let knights last longer in a fight so that their low damage could be expressed. However, this never really OP'd the class because the little gold hockey players sitting on your shoulders tells everyone else to CC you immediately, and they do. With the new tanking combinations, nerfing AO1 means fewer people will want to use this level 19 ability.

I would suggest that if you want to go this direction with Army of One, Chilko, that you make it so that CC spells cast on a knight reset or hold the 10-second countdown on AO1. This would in effect give the enemy a difficult choice. They can choose to knock you down, but that simply means your protection lasts longer, in which case they run away if solo and losing, or continue to pound with damage if they're a group attacking a knight. Or they can take the hits coming to them, and wait out the 10seconds while (if the knight is in melee range) taking damage.

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by Ulti19

...

Indeed it was quite frustrating, cc that has not been blocked or resisted just resisted the effect in the 2nd layer from that one passive Skill (Runover?) and Defensive Support.

An idea would be to make Sudden Strike (-50% protection) work on the full amount of Armor points, at the moment it just works additive.

Eg.: currently Your base ap 100% + Stance 200% = 300% ap, Sudden strike makes it 250% ap.

Change to 300%ap + Sudden strike = 150% ap.

You might to consider lowering its duration and maybe make it range 20 so it cant be used too easily from range.




Another idea is to change those random CC resistances Defensive Support adds to a more situational "boost" of resistances, however it will interfere with UM on Barbs (well its basically the same spell just with less effect but you can have it up 24/7).

Or move this kind of spell into a Knight specific tree and switch current Defensive Support spell with a new spell for warriors:

No manacost 2,3,4,5,6s duration 25s CD, instant (or 0.5s) cast, GCD: very short.
Next hostile Spell cast on you cancels the buff. When the spell contains a CC effect it will ignore it and restore 5, 7, 9, 12, 15% mana.


Rework UM in line with Ao1 changes (CD/Duration). Lower both manacosts.

Melee would need some kind of toning down then as they already are faster at the moment but this would seriously bring dynamics in melee gameplay. Less resting and waiting for cooldowns, some kind of mana restoration when used wisely, more involvement also in the times where you are NOT in range of a target and, it wont completely mess up the RvR balance.

More sustained fun then the rare "burst" fun (questionable) when you have your invulnerability buffed and got into range of something.