While the server is down

[Godofsilver]

Since you never listen to me while I'm me, I'll try copying YOU, Val :P

Originally Posted by Valorius

Beetle swarm is no attacks at all though.

So that makes it stunning fist (or is beetle no spells, like healing as well? I never knew for sure), but from 30 yards away, with a casting time, and the damage is over time; not all at once.

Originally Posted by Valorius

With confuse you can still unload on me with all the offense at your disposal, hence the much higher duration.

If you're a conj, WHAT offense are we talking about? Even Warjurers heal themselves for pity's sake

Originally Posted by Valorius

I and many hunters have said many times here we'd gladly trade confuse for a true 15 second ranged no attack spell.

In a heartbeat.

I ask for your definition of "many", please. And that would be overpowered; 15 seconds if too long, because then the warlocks would fall, the barb would fall, and it just wouldn't be fair to the other classes.

I hope read it... unless I'm ignored, like the other 13 people.

[ncvr]

No, it wouldn't. Only if it was given to marksmen.

Knights have good knockdown and dizzy as their offensive power to make up for their lack of dmg (as well as defense but marksmen have better defense than hunters) so I think hunters should get some more control spells too.

[magnet]

Two "cannot attack" spells in the same tree would be unbalanced, it's among the strongest effects. And 15s, are you out of your mind? The longest cannot attack is 9s, and isn't even ranged, and you want a 15s ranged spell with the same effect?

With cannot attack you can still buff yourself. With confuse you can only attack others. Those powers are almost the strict opposite, Confuse is worse against a defensive class and Cannot attack worse for an offensive class. I fail to see how the fact that you can use attacks and damaging spells justifies Confuse to have a duration 4.5 longer at level 5. My lv50 support Conjurer has 2 spells available under Confuse: beetle swarm & pricky ivy. Plus regular hits of around 30dmg/hit. Yay.

(of course now I'll hear about DI and/or setting up with a Zarkit, and it will be the same answer. Saying Confuse is balanced because of DI is the same as saying South Crossed is balanced because of Heal Ally and Material Wall...).

[Valorius]

Almost nobody uses lvl 5 confuse, it requires lvl 19 tricks. I venture to say that 95%+ of the archers in the WZ do not have lvl 19 tricks. With lvl 4 confuse, a conj will have the effect wear off before i can kill him in almost all cases. I don't use a pet, true, but i have much stronger bow skills than a typical hunter who does. I've won lots of fights after being confused, as long as it's a 1 vs 1 and i have a good supply of mana. Confuse doesn't stop a player from unloading in an opponents face with every offensive spell they have. Confuse makes evasion almost impossible, but you can still fight.

I thought there were some 15 second stuns. No? Isn't the one warrior area a 15 sec knockdown at lvl 5? I know distracting shot is 15 sec, but that gets dispelled if target is attacked, making it pretty useless in group battles.

What about master of doom? That lasts 60 seconds doesn't it? And in a gigantic area to top it off. If you want to make the case for an overpowered dizzy spell, that one is staring you in the face.

[magnet]

Originally Posted by Valorius

Almost nobody uses lvl 5 confuse, it requires lvl 19 tricks. I venture to say that 95%+ of the archers in the WZ do not have lvl 19 tricks. With lvl 4 confuse, a conj will have the effect wear off before i can kill him in almost all cases. I don't use a pet, true, but i have much stronger bow skills than a typical hunter who does. I've won lots of fights after being confused, as long as it's a 1 vs 1 and i have a good supply of mana. Confuse doesn't stop a player from unloading in an opponents face with every offensive spell they have. Confuse makes evasion almost impossible, but you can still fight.

35 seconds is still too much. Hell Confuse lv 1 is already a lot (would be OK as a level 5). As I said I think the correct and balanced duration should be 7, 10, 13, 16, 20 (one sec bonus for the level 5).

Once again you think as a Hunter only. You have a passive speed which is the best tool one could use against Confuse.

Originally Posted by Valorius

I thought there were some 15 second stuns. No? Isn't the one warrior area a 15 sec knockdown at lvl 5? I know distracting shot is 15 sec, but that gets dispelled if target is attacked, making it pretty useless in group battles.

Stun isn't Knock down. Yes there are 15 secs stuns, so what? It wears out after the first hit (even non damaging ones).

Max KD duration is 9s. It would be easier to discuss balance if you knew about spells, classes, effects, etc.

Originally Posted by Valorius

What about master of doom? That lasts 60 seconds doesn't it? And in a gigantic area to top it off. If you want to make the case for an overpowered dizzy spell, that one is staring you in the face.

As I stated I think MoD should be 20s lv1, +10s / level. The easy part of MoD is that it stops when the Warlock dies, and it's what happens very fast when a Warlock casts it inconsiderately since everyone targets him. Anyway, you can't compare MoD and Confuse, if you wanna compare MoD with an Archer spell, compare it to say Lightning Arrow, Wild Spirit or the ability to tame pets. This is with Sultar's Terror the skills which defines a Warlock. No MoD/Terror = no point playing Warlock really, might as well be a marksman. And finally, even if you think this is a non-argument and I don't care about it, those are RvR skills that only noobs use in 1vs1. Unlike Confuse which is mostly used in small skirmishes.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Originally Posted by magnet

The easy part of MoD is that it stops when the Warlock dies, and it's what happens very fast when a Warlock casts it inconsiderately since everyone targets him.

+ you just have to get out of range + mobs targets you if you cast it while they are near so you need the right enviroment too. ALthough you could also do it on purpose so you will slowly lose hp (from a lion, 150 dmg per hit) and while you have the opponent under a combat control spell you do damage while the lion is hitting you so you can do a soulkeeper and kill 'im quicklier .

although mod is only range 15, it's easy to get out of, although you have to take positioning lag into consideration too, which side is it on, the warlock who might be further away than he think or the other one who just can't get out of range.

[magnet]

Originally Posted by Angelwinged_Devil

+ you just have to get out of range + mobs targets you if you cast it while they are near so you need the right enviroment too. ALthough you could also do it on purpose so you will slowly lose hp (from a lion, 150 dmg per hit) and while you have the opponent under a combat control spell you do damage while the lion is hitting you so you can do a soulkeeper and kill 'im quicklier .

although mod is only range 15, it's easy to get out of, although you have to take positioning lag into consideration too, which side is it on, the warlock who might be further away than he think or the other one who just can't get out of range.

? Mobs haven't attacked MoD users for ages, it's been fixed like last summer. Only guards attack.
Btw it's definitely not easy to get out of MoD range except for a Hunter. You can't cast speed buffs once dizzy, and Warlocks run just as fast as any non-buffed class except Hunters.

[fluffy_muffin]

Originally Posted by magnet

35 seconds is still too much. Hell Confuse lv 1 is already a lot (would be OK as a level 5). As I said I think the correct and balanced duration should be 7, 10, 13, 16, 20 (one sec bonus for the level 5).

O.K. so we deleting zarkits and conj will be full support only?

[magnet]

Originally Posted by zielski

O.K. so we deleting zarkits and conj will be full support only?

I think Zarkits shouldn't be removed but their damage should be lowered, it's overpowered right now.

[BlooD]

MoD will be readjusted soon i guess, if they finnally start with the warlock changes i guess mod will be changed to 20 secs lvl 1 and 10+ per lvl.

Anyway MoD had always his trick, all warlock fail in the same place, they use terror + mod so you are not dizzied when you got up. This means 10 people clicks and cast a skill on the same warlock when they recover from the knockdown, that usually means a dead warlock and no people dizzied.

The other thing is using a dizzy spell and they advance with mod, its pretty funny when you see a tremor on the whole group and a warlock getting close with his MoD. You only have to get close to avoid the dizzy effect of the MoD.

What reminds me of a thing, why darkness and confuse could be used while you are knocked or even under the effect of another darkness/confuse. Its pretty lame seeing how they knock you and they cast confuse on you :S.