New Balance Update: some BUG fixes and tweaks (Stage 5) - Page 13

Topogigio_BR · 08-10-2010, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

Having both a 50 barb and 50 marks and having used them both plenty in war, believe me when I say that Barbs are by far the most mana-consuming class, bar none, when comparing most functional average class builds.

It takes an average barb 70-80% of his mana pool alone simply to fuel all his buffs. Factor in high-mana attacks and cc's and it is very possible a barb is completely out of mana after he fully buffs and gets off two attack spells.

That's why barbs, if they usually vie for max effectiveness (with both offensive/defensive buffs), have to sacrifice pretty much all of their mana in one sitting.

But you are suppose to atack kyro. Problem is if marks could have a really good atack a kiling machine from distance as some said i wouldnt mind of spending all my mana.

But if i should have to support i need more mana to actually support. What i am really pissed of is not having one nor the other, and ppl saying that it should be that way.

theotherhiveking · 08-10-2010, 07:28 PM

I think the main problem with the barb is that the skill are:

Overly powerful, passive, expensive buffs. (Do hit this to hit for decent damage the next 40 seconds, hurr hurr, or even misleading: +x% damage bonus? Not true, half of our skills are like this.
Normal hits with a added effect that its exactly the same for every skill.
Useless:+50 miss chance or the whopping 30% hit chance buff, rend (spend 240 mana to take away 240 mana, likely less.. ewww), spiritual blow (we are the faster class now...), that skill that takes away some evade chance... pffff.
Wacky, beast attack is worse than normal attacks until lvl 4, and has a 50% chance to apply a totally OP crippling dizzy.

Fulminating could totally be awesome if it wasnt because of the 1sec casting time, our range even got reduced, i tried and its impossible to cast.

I have to admit that all the skills look useful compared to what hunters have on Ra.

UmarilsStillHere · 08-10-2010, 07:32 PM

Those +100%s are indeed false, since it only counts wep damage and totaly ignores stats/buffs. Meaning most of the time 100% damage is less than a buffed-normal hit, leading to more normal hit spam and less skill use.

_Enio_ · 08-10-2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

Having both a 50 barb and 50 marks and having used them both plenty in war, believe me when I say that Barbs are by far the most mana-consuming class, bar none, when comparing most functional average class builds.

It takes an average barb 70-80% of his mana pool alone simply to fuel all his buffs. Factor in high-mana attacks and cc's and it is very possible a barb is completely out of mana after he fully buffs and gets off two attack spells.

That's why barbs, if they usually vie for max effectiveness (with both offensive/defensive buffs), have to sacrifice pretty much all of their mana in one sitting.

The mana problem with marks is thy dont have mana reg in combat due to recharged costing mana per normal hit.

The mana problem with barbs is their buffs take such amounts of mana that theres not much left to use on tools.

How much mana you consume does greatly vary on your playstyle and situation, theres no need to name one "most" consuming class.
Id still pick my marks in a fort war when i had to, but you can play a marks easily in a way to not use as much, however the mana is always going down while fighting, thats marks specific.

Gideon_Slack · 08-10-2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klutu

After several pvp's with Archers

A Hunter needs escapist to be able to take a Barb on - since they don't have dominate speed anymore it's easy game for a barb to kill a hunter

Escapist doesn't work anything like Sotw in terms of success

Remember old sotw wasn't op because of the Resistance to Spells & Normals - it was the speed that put it over the edge

Hunters have no speed anymore

With Sotw Escapist Cold Blooded Tricks Ensare - a hunter has to learn to conserve there mana if they want to win a fight. simply buffing Sotw Escapist & Cold blooded right off the start of a fight will get them killed

This is why Hunters are complaining so much about this update. It changes the fundamental way the class is played.

It would be like saying Barbs no longer have to rely on high offense to win, but instead defensive buffs. People would rightly go ballistic -- that's no longer a Barbarian, the class they signed up to play.

Same with Hunters having speed taken away and replaced with purely defensive buffs like SotW and Escapist (which were once both speed buffs).

Like has been said elsewhere, those who view Regnum as an E-sport will just find a build that works, even if it's not consistent with the class' identity. But those who like the "virtual world" aspect are left wondering what happened.

Topogigio_BR · 08-10-2010, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umaril

Acrobatic, evasive tactics, strategic, sotw ... This is not enough defence?

Etheral and Arcania are decent offence. And your normals (considering the range) are good without being ott.

compare it with ao1, steel skin energy barrier and some others to see is not good defense if you act like a support class. Plus all this is archer class the only good defense spell for marks is strategic position and still is far less than other support classes.

Topogigio_BR · 08-10-2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Enio_

The mana problem with marks is thy dont have mana reg in combat due to recharged costing mana per normal hit.

The mana problem with barbs is their buffs take such amounts of mana that theres not much left to use on tools.

How much mana you consume does greatly vary on your playstyle and situation, theres no need to name one "most" consuming class.
Id still pick my marks in a fort war when i had to, but you can play a marks easily in a way to not use as much, however the mana is always going down while fighting, thats marks specific.

Agree with you enio, i can deal with having high mana cost for beeing a damage class. What i can deal is having high mana cost for beeing a support class. And by the way where are those so called support spells for marks. The only one i see is lightening.

Topogigio_BR · 08-10-2010, 08:03 PM

If marks should be support than give more damage to hunter, for they to be the attack class of archers.
But probably same ppl will be against it.

chilko · 08-10-2010, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gideon_Slack

Like has been said elsewhere, those who view Regnum as an E-sport will just find a build that works, even if it's not consistent with the class' identity. But those who like the "virtual world" aspect are left wondering what happened.

This is just not true... as game developers we are more interested in creating a coherent fantasy and keeping with player expectations than mathematical perfection.

We are trying to make the hunter class something that is more resembling of its actual leit motif class (ranger, scout, assassin) not a god like mess (that has the best defense, invisibility and also may carry a pet).

Topogigio_BR · 08-10-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilko

This is just not true... as game developers we are more interested in creating a coherent fantasy and keeping with player expectations than mathematical perfection.

We are trying to make the hunter class something that is more resembling of its actual leit motif class (ranger, scout, assassin) not a god like mess (that has the best defense, invisibility and also may carry a pet).

I will say again i liked the things done to hunters in this stage 5. But i really think we will have many warriors asking to nerf ensnaring cos they just cant get a hunter.

08-10-2010, 07:28 PM	#122
theotherhiveking Count Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,452	I think the main problem with the barb is that the skill are: Overly powerful, passive, expensive buffs. (Do hit this to hit for decent damage the next 40 seconds, hurr hurr, or even misleading: +x% damage bonus? Not true, half of our skills are like this. Normal hits with a added effect that its exactly the same for every skill. Useless:+50 miss chance or the whopping 30% hit chance buff, rend (spend 240 mana to take away 240 mana, likely less.. ewww), spiritual blow (we are the faster class now...), that skill that takes away some evade chance... pffff. Wacky, beast attack is worse than normal attacks until lvl 4, and has a 50% chance to apply a totally OP crippling dizzy. Fulminating could totally be awesome if it wasnt because of the 1sec casting time, our range even got reduced, i tried and its impossible to cast. I have to admit that all the skills look useful compared to what hunters have on Ra. __________________ ⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺

08-10-2010, 07:32 PM	#123
UmarilsStillHere Marquis Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: England Posts: 2,419	Those +100%s are indeed false, since it only counts wep damage and totaly ignores stats/buffs. Meaning most of the time 100% damage is less than a buffed-normal hit, leading to more normal hit spam and less skill use. __________________ Faith 50 Barb Faithless 50 Lock Umaril 45 Conju Kailas 45 Marks Pel 45 Knight I N Q U I S I T I O N

08-10-2010, 08:03 PM	#128
Topogigio_BR Baron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brazil Posts: 622	If marks should be support than give more damage to hunter, for they to be the attack class of archers. But probably same ppl will be against it.