07-25-2010, 07:09 PM
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#141 |
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Initiate
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 154
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+10
From the changes listed and reading the feedback...thou i do find the amount of 'OMG..somethings changed...its different..i cant do what im used to doing..its a nerf!' posts...i'm looking forward to see how archers are integrated to this improvement to gameplay (hopefully). Taking all the changes together we (the players) get a lot more than we lose. Battles should last longer and it should be harder to annihilate an enemy in open field/bridge fights...if nothing else this should mean more rez than altar. I havent played my conj in..well...ever as it felt as thou i was just a mobile constant health potion...with the change to GH i actually might play him again..but only if we make the most of the changes.....if we carry on as normal then i wont because the change does increase the need for a conj to be protected....the changes to the knight help with this....but the way we play - and i do include myself - with moments of real teamplay surrounded by everyone just out for themselves. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but as far as i understand it, Regnum is supposed to be more that just a muti-player shooter. Each class has an overall role in the RvR part of the game, and these changes certainly appear to move more in this direction..which means to get the most from the RvR we have to try to increase the moments of teamplay. Barbs - protect your conj's, get past the knights and kill anything that moves. Knight - protect your conj's, stop enemy barbs, support mages + marx. Conj - Buff, Heal, Rez - support everyone that you can while they protect you. Lock - protect your conj's, area bombardment, support Barbs and/or Knights Hunt - protect your conj's, report enemy movements..protect flanks and rear...sneak attack on enemy flank and rear Marks - protect your conj's, support everyone else, protect flanks and rear Think outside of what is happening to your class and see the big picture...if you try to play the same way as you did, ofc its gonna be 'bad'....oooo ramble...sry again +10 on the changes |
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07-25-2010, 07:19 PM
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#142 | |
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Initiate
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 233
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07-25-2010, 07:30 PM
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#143 |
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Count
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
Posts: 1,194
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Yes you are correct. Error noted and fixed in original post . Thanks. And by the way Greyman_tle , that is just what I was going to discuss in my next post. The relationship between classes (mainly conju and Knight) in war and why conjurers should never have to be tanks in war if the others do their job or are allowed to do their job properly.
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07-25-2010, 07:54 PM
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#144 |
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Initiate
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 111
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protecting conjurers doesnt work, and i say it as conjurer.
if i, on squishy lvl 46 lock with default speed, lvl 4 barrier can run into small zerg and cast close up spell, how do you imagine stopping a buffed, um'ed and probably divined barb with ons and spring, given the selection problems and lack of collision detection? of course the barb have no chance of coming out alive, but there allways are suicidal barbs loyal to cause. the bigest problem actually isnt about conjurers being or not being overpovered, underpovered orwhatever. problem is about class destruction due of lack of any fun or direct psychological rewards of playing it. there are mostly about 6 conjurer specific spells wich are used on others. the rest are shared with mage class or used in self defense. now, if you think about it, there is almost more appeal of dropping some of warlocks attacking capabilities and skill more on supportive side of warlock, wich would probably need adjusting 3-5 points on some spells for good part of locks, and being able to still do attack stuff, with just a bit dimished performance, perhaps. now the question is - can the 6 spells provide enough fun to play conjurer? |
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07-25-2010, 08:16 PM
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#145 | |
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Apprentice
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central Island
Posts: 55
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How To Kill a Conju in 30 Seconds By Aasiora 1: Camo (position yourself behind the conju) 2: Confuse/Ambush (inflict Confuse(5) on the conju, effectively leaving him/her completely helpless) 3. Attack conju while confused for the 30 sec duration (troll is preferred) 4. Use Sotw and Low Profile to escape from the zerg that is now pissed at you for killing their conju 5. Repeat step 1 for other conjus. ----------------------------------------------------------- so what were you saying about the big picture? Maybe you should look at the REAL big picture and realize that it's hard for a conju to "heal/buff/revive" when they are confused for 30 seconds. With all due respect, if you want the "big picture" from a conju perspective, read Scias' post and then ask yourself why a lot of people wrote "+1 at Scias's comment".
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Aasiora(conjurer) | Aari (knight) |Iraa (warlock) |
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07-25-2010, 08:23 PM
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#146 | |
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Master
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Valiantly battling at... oops, at Agg save :/
Posts: 253
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From PP2 to Algaros took me 1m35s at first, I got it down to about 1m25s cutting corners. PP2 to Trelle - about 1m20s So pretty even from a bridge regrouping point to attack. Alga fort to PP2 was about 55s, while Trelle to PP2 was still about 1m20s, so when we're playing Alga-Trelle ping-pong, Syrtis has an advantage, but this is a pretty minor point - since we have the advantage of being dead, we can still get to our own fort first.  Trelle save to PP2 was about 60s, Trelle save to Alga is about 2m25s. Alga fort to Trelle fort is about 2m15s, but Alga save is farther away, more than 10s worth (I couldn't measure it because the guard killed me before I reached it, and I forgot to check the clock because a couple of Syrts had started chasing me while I tried to explain what i was doing.  Syrt: "No comprendo, Senora, eat arrows!" Me: "Wait, 'eat arrows' is English!" Syrt:  So Alsius has an advantage when ressing at the save and getting back to fight at the opposing fort. We used to have an even bigger advantage when we could run up the cliff, I suspect PP2-to-Alga time becomes essentially the same as the Alga-to-PP2 time: 55s. In short, this change brings us much closer to balance. I haven't seen the Alsius-Efe tele on Amun yet, anyone know if it's been implemented yet, and where it is? |
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07-25-2010, 08:25 PM
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#147 | |
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Baron
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: /dev/null
Posts: 766
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Will it concern only Sultar's Terror or any spell ? That's lame, really I was more enjoyed by this update because of this (non stackable/chainable CCs + immunity period), because reducing Terror to 90% chance, when there's like 5-6 terrors stacked is a bit useless, and even with nerfed damage and armor/auras working correctly, mages won't still survive the Sultar stacks and rushes, esp if GH stays like this. It's a pity that you reverted back  So if it stays like this, can we hope any Dispel / Mass Dispel improvement to have a chance to counter this ? Eg, Dispel / Mass Dispel giving immunity to CCs for 3 seconds after successful dispel would be very nice.
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07-25-2010, 08:27 PM
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#148 |
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Initiate
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 233
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@ Greyman & Artec
As an experienced knight I know my role and I have no problem protecting when it's required of me. Prior to this update, I would easily acknowledge to anyone that succeeding at making any difference protecting mages in the rear was exceedingly difficult. The knight auras do very little to tank mages against pets, and their range-arc on top of that made them horrendously silly to use when combat is so fluid. There is ethereal mantle to protect any specific mage, but it generally doesn't help against archers since it protects against magical damage only. The primary threat to mages in war are archers, marksmen or hunters it doesn't really matter. Hunters will wait until there's noone around protecting me (When I'm on my lock) and ambush/confuse/pet kill me. Marksmen will simply buff up and nail me from fort walls after a mage or another archer has managed to knock me down, or when they know I can't get out of their range in time. The result of this is, mages protect themselves. They haven't a choice in the matter. The only knight aura used previously was HP5 and it was best used around Barbs since their armor points were closer to knights and thus the +100% makes a bigger difference around warriors. So knights instead of protecting mages will usually just cluster with barbs and use their CC and HP5 along with whatever damage they could muster. If knights are to really protect mages from their primary threat (Archers), there has to be some kind of speed balancing, imho. I would suggest leaving the crown of speed kings with the hunters but improve the speed bonus given to knights, perhaps shorten the effective time for spring (and perhaps increase it's CD a bit) and give knights specifically a passive speed boost so that with the addition of spring 5 knights can make a very fast short sprint and quickly pounce upon an archer attacking the mages. This sort of speed balancing needs to be done in a very specific way such that knights still can't chase down a hunter who's running away at full speed(because the spring countdown is too long), but fast enough to get 10-20m faster than any hunter can move off. If this sort of speed balancing isn't done, knights will in no way want to stay in the rear to protect the mages, because they'll never get a kill (archers will go into a god mode of some kind, sanc, sotw, etc, or just run away), they'll watch all their mages get killed and then they'll be the last ones alive and get pummeled. Imho: - Knight aura improvements are good, they let knights actually help lead charges. - Warlock CC nerfs, if done very selectively, are a good idea, they make locks have to cast smarter instead of simply area-ing the enemy to death. - Support Conju nerfs are in general not a good idea simply because, as has been described, conjus lengthen combat time, they keep the fight going which increases the fun. - Knights need more short-sprint speed if they are ever going to be able to protect the mages. If this isn't their role, then the only people left able to protect the rear of a group are hunters, and that's a far more lonely/thankless job than conjurer. Last edited by BigManOnCampus; 07-25-2010 at 08:43 PM. |
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07-25-2010, 08:57 PM
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#149 |
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Baron
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
Posts: 697
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Hmm big let down to know that sultar will stack..i was so psyched about this, that NGD had finally understood that it wasnt sultars dmg, it was the cheap ass chained knocks that let melee classes charge with their own areas.
Now I have to go tell my friends, that we can look forward to the same stale gameplay, watching as we lay on the ground, sultar after sultar, and seeing barbs onslaught towards you. Fun. Now At least (if this prelim changes, make it to final, the GH especially, I can really have a valid reason not to want to support. Because I can't  You give me no tools to do it.. Like the majority of people say..its not the tanking of conjs that was op..it was in conjunction with the warju build (sm/mental/summon trees that made it op. Staff mags still stack, accel still has same duration (and ignis still has op rings and quest tunic/armor that make this spell even more deadly) Steel skin was only physical damage, not elemental so It wasn't a true "tank" spell, one or 2 locks will finish that off quickly whether or not you have 2 GH running, heals and self regen, I can only hope to sanc before I get killed, assuming I don't get a meteor to the face, which assuredly will happen. sure you can use karma mirror but thats only for 30 secs, and 30% return. Also doesnt do jack if you have a barrier up. If you really intend to make this class difficult with absolutely no reward or incentive to play, then I thank you for not nerfing the really OP warju skills, and nerfing the ones that actually played into the theme you wished a class to play as..support/healing. So if I can't heal anyone, well least killing people is still a viable option and easy as maxing the staff mastery tree, and picking up a summon. I really hoped this was going to be a really good balance phase, but after seeing your plans, and outright missing the whole point time and time again, I'm guessing confuse will be extended to 60 secs, and hunters will be able to shoot from horses. Just frustrated I guess because I really like this game, and I really liked the conjurer class because I like helping people. But you keep taking away the skills that let me do so, and instead of making it rewarding and fun to polay, you say you want it to be difficult and frustrating instead. We need lower costs for heals, instant casts. Cast speed is fine, the gcd I can live with. but nerfing our ability to give mana is crippling (it costs us about as much as it gives out, but gives fa to slow to be of any use, players are better off just resting! if you try to support with it, players will burn through it faster than it regens. Of course you can have more conjs giving mana com, but again, who wants to subject themselve to such a aggravating class that needs multiple conjs to even make a high level spell effective? Same with healing (mass heal) Why is it slashed in half? I can deal with the healing myself like you say, but the cooldown is too long! its better to just use heal ally, but that has a cast time..gcd, high cost, and it requires a hectic amount of micro management (plus you give us no way to tell allies health rates at a glance (meaning just that, no buttons to press.., no slow party update) Why can we not heal allies with full health but can give mana to those with full mana? WHY can't you just fix that too..so we don't waste our mana (because we can't tell WHO needs mana, the party system is slow, and hasn't worked right since i begun playing, I have to scan the chat, for mana!! and then run over there, give him mana, then run to heal some one, worry about my own buffs, my position, my mana level etc etc etc. A simple "cannot cast because target all has full mana" would suffice. SYnergy bond is far more useful than mana com is, but it require such micromanagement, I thought the idea of these auras were to limit that when things become too hectic, a way to still support when overwhelmed by needs you cannot give in the time alloted to everyone via singular spells, or the only conjurer in a group. But these spells you propose, and including nerfed spells (mana com) it is pointless when the gain is too small and incremental to be much more effective than simply resting. Please reconsider these changes you are implementing, because I honestly think this is one more nail in the coffin for the class, and it does nothing at all to inhibit warju builds, it makes them more attractive by a wide margin.
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Taking a break from Regnum due to work leaving me little free time! So my laptop must go for now! (ask me for full details, it is an Alienware Mx18 3rd gen Ivy bridge i73920xm & configured with SLI twin Nvidia 675m, paid 3,330$ asking 2,800$ or 2,400$ + netbook. |
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07-25-2010, 09:01 PM
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#150 |
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 450
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Knights auras will greatly protect conj's if they skill for it now. I don't think they need some speed increase or anything. If knight stays back and casts deflecting barrier 5 which is 40% reduction of ranged damage and shield wall 5 which is 40 % protection against pierce, slash and blunt the uncamoed hunter will take forever to kill the conj while the knight can knock and kill pet until hunter runs away. And with star shield and shield wall now being an area buff, the knight can cast on the conjs and move to stop barbs, or help stop barbs charging. Protecting players will be so much easier (from my experience) if these auras stay this way. It is possible to help your conj's stay alive, you just have to skill for it after the update. However, this all depends how people play etc, so of course an unprotected conj will get destroyed by a camoed hunter which hits with confuse and troll attacks, just like an unbuffed barb who is ambushed by a troll hunter who casts confuse has almost no chance to do anything in open field.
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