Balance Update, First real iteration on AMUN! - Page 17

Isemon · 07-26-2010, 08:55 AM

yea about items i feel the same, i bought ximerin to engrave gems, and to buy gems that in next update will have half of the effect they have now. I feel like NGD stole my money. Is this the way you like to behave to your customers?

ieti · 07-26-2010, 09:37 AM

Calm down everyone.

For me idea of converting GH to area is nice - it just needs more duration OR smaller cooldown. Bad part is we loose 1 regen in case of danger. Please reconsider returning back regen self prebuff. Regen ally can stay as is. I think we can live with that. This is not the main problem this class have.

First warriors will now hit and cast while moving, so conjus will need faster casts so they can protect self. Please consider faster and bigger self heals. We will need some more and faster self heals, because we will have faster and more deadly warriors on us. You know the old rule - conjus first!

Second gameplay will be alot more active. Me personally hardly manage to heal myself one ally if hardly targeted. I can not even save one ally. Once again faster, cheaper, bigger heals and less cooldowns.

Main problems conjurers have now are slow casts - we use devotion to make it somehow better(i use 40%cs + 12% on staff and i'm fine, i do not think every conju have access to such staff), before i needed only fast staff to cast with same speed. We suffer from cooldowns on support spells - our allies die even if we do our best to save it, we die because our defense spells are slow to cast and too expansive. Mana problems - with our main spells made more expensive we are constantly low on mana, but everyone expect us to heal and support. Old MC was too good - please reconsider it 500 - 600 instant area so we can cope with increased mana usage, pull down mana usage of heals and dispell, so we will not need to constantly watch our mana, and conserve for 1 sanct or Steel skin.

I suppose NGD want conjus to team with support knights. Maybe this will be good if knights want to be support and want to support conjurers with auras and protection. Then we will tank because of knight auras and if things go bad we will use our sorcery spells. This can work maybe we will see. We just need something to be done so knight and conjus supportive sides to be made better and more more appealing. I'm usually glad to have some supportive teammates who protect me. I spare all my mana to help them.

So calm down and wait a little - do not act so impulsive we still do not see whole picture. Please be nice, supportive and if something is not right i know NGD will listen to us so all will be alright.

Gabburtjuh · 07-26-2010, 09:50 AM

my biggest problem is terrors wills till overlap, which is the whole problem of terror, and gh worries me to, since alsius already lacks in support conjs most of the time.

e30G · 07-26-2010, 10:31 AM

(moving it to it's own thread)

Vroek · 07-26-2010, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayexeyen_

(About old objects.
I paid for good objects from Lucky box, some of them give cast speed and attack speed. With these changes you are substantially changing my objects, that doesn't seem right for me. As someone have already suggested (look here: http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...ad.php?t=62826) I think that you should double the speed of the objects, but only for the objects that have been bought in the past. Also the RoL now is less effective (making Ignis weaker), will you double its AS?

Making ingis weaker?
Everyone finally get the chance to acquire this RoL item.

Double AS is really not the way, Arcane devotion is just doubled at lvl 5 you know.
15% AS is still almost 13% old AS, why make worth 23%?
30% AS is still 23 % old AS.
40% AS is still 29 % old AS.

Id say leave the AS speed spells and AS/CS items as they are. (Except maybe hawks gaze, since it a lvl 19)
AS is still really good and it not AS vs CS anyway.

CS speed items take much bigger hit due to Arcane devotion, but think we can all agree its justified to nerf extreme cast speeds.
I think CS Items could be changed 1% to 1.5% because of this.

UmarilsStillHere · 07-26-2010, 11:34 AM

I agree that slower cast times are sort of the point of this update and doubling existing items (as show above) is way ott.

Quote:

Barbarians:

* Thirst for blood: It can be cast regardless of the weapon round.
* Rage of the earth: Chance of knock down progression changed from levels 1 to 5 (50, 60, 70, 80, 90%).

TFB: What does this change meen?

Roth: So thats a 90% chance of a 10 second knockdown? At first glace that sounds a bit much but for level 19 2H (which you need sacrifices to get) 350 mana and a weird not-quite arc but sort of arcish area it should be all right, Ill probably give it a go.

ncvr · 07-26-2010, 11:35 AM

I assume the TFB change means that TFB's cast ignores the current attack cycle, like kick.

ayexeyen_ · 07-26-2010, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vroek

Making ingis weaker?
Everyone finally get the chance to acquire this RoL item.

Double AS is really not the way, Arcane devotion is just doubled at lvl 5 you know.
15% AS is still almost 13% old AS, why make worth 23%?
30% AS is still 23 % old AS.
40% AS is still 29 % old AS.

Id say leave the AS speed spells and AS/CS items as they are. (Except maybe hawks gaze, since it a lvl 19)
AS is still really good and it not AS vs CS anyway.

CS speed items take much bigger hit due to Arcane devotion, but think we can all agree its justified to nerf extreme cast speeds.
I think CS Items could be changed 1% to 1.5% because of this.

Yeah maybe double is not the right way but maybe increase a bit the speed of the objs would be better.

I did a summary of the changes in the system. As you can see with the new system everything is slower.

For the old system:
Time of buff= Nominal time * (base_buffing_velocity-bonus)
For the new system:
Time of buff= Nominal time/(base_buffing_velocity+bonus)

(where base_buffing_velocity should be in general equal to 1).

According to the post that I have cited, if one have 75% of cast speed bonus a player can (for example) cast sultar in:
3*(1-0.75)= 0.75 seconds (that correspond with the value of Narzoul in his post).
Now, let's take his example of the car.
You have to cover 300 km, and you travel at 100km/h, so it take 3 hours. Now you increase your speed of 100%, and you go at 200 km/h (quite fast!!

).
You cover that distance in 1.5 hours and that correspond to the formula.

I have put a graph of how these changes will influence the casting (buffing?) time for example for a buff of 3 seconds.
But maybe I am wrong and I will appreciate if someone could correct me.

doppelapfel · 07-26-2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

I paid for good objects from Lucky box, some of them give cast speed and attack speed. With these changes you are substantially changing my objects, that doesn't seem right for me. As someone have already suggested (look here: http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...ad.php?t=62826) I think that you should double the speed of the objects, but only for the objects that have been bought in the past. Also the RoL now is less effective (making Ignis weaker), will you double its AS?

Im a lock with +17% cs on gear, i bought a socket and spent magnas to get the staff and gloves and i completly agree with letting it as it is. It still gives you a good advantage, too good before.
Doubling the effect of the old items and not giving new players a chance to get those would be insane unfair.

_Nel_ · 07-26-2010, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doppelapfel

Im a lock with +17% cs on gear, i bought a socket and spent magnas to get the staff and gloves and i completly agree with letting it as it is. It still gives you a good advantage, too good before.
Doubling the effect of the old items and not giving new players a chance to get those would be insane unfair.

I don't agree.

If you already have +100% cs (arcane 5), giving +17*2% cs won't change so much.
You go from 46% casting time [ 1/(1+1.17) = 0.46 ] to 42% casting time [ 1/(1+1.34) = 0.42 ] (you can check with this post).
That means a spell with 3s casting time will be cast in 1.26 sec instead of 1.38 sec (diff. 0.12 sec).
Remember, before the change you had -67% casting time, the same spell as above was cast in 1 sec.

But on the other hand, if you have +0% cs (archers and warriors), giving +17*2% cs is a good thing.
You go from 85% casting time [ 1/(1+0.17 = 0.85 ] to 75% casting time [ 1/(1+0.34) = 0.75 ].
That means a spell with 3s casting time will be cast in 2.25 sec instead of 2.55 sec (diff. 0.30 sec).

With this kind of behaviour, having a good +cast speed can become an opportunity for non-mage classes.

07-26-2010, 08:55 AM	#161
Isemon Initiate Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Italy Posts: 127	yea about items i feel the same, i bought ximerin to engrave gems, and to buy gems that in next update will have half of the effect they have now. I feel like NGD stole my money. Is this the way you like to behave to your customers? __________________ Italiani di Syrtis Isemon[Conjurer] - Hunthor[Hunter] - Elrik[Barbarian] - Nekronos[Warlock]

07-26-2010, 09:37 AM	#162
ieti Count Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sofia, Bulgaria Posts: 1,374	Calm down everyone. For me idea of converting GH to area is nice - it just needs more duration OR smaller cooldown. Bad part is we loose 1 regen in case of danger. Please reconsider returning back regen self prebuff. Regen ally can stay as is. I think we can live with that. This is not the main problem this class have. First warriors will now hit and cast while moving, so conjus will need faster casts so they can protect self. Please consider faster and bigger self heals. We will need some more and faster self heals, because we will have faster and more deadly warriors on us. You know the old rule - conjus first! Second gameplay will be alot more active. Me personally hardly manage to heal myself one ally if hardly targeted. I can not even save one ally. Once again faster, cheaper, bigger heals and less cooldowns. Main problems conjurers have now are slow casts - we use devotion to make it somehow better(i use 40%cs + 12% on staff and i'm fine, i do not think every conju have access to such staff), before i needed only fast staff to cast with same speed. We suffer from cooldowns on support spells - our allies die even if we do our best to save it, we die because our defense spells are slow to cast and too expansive. Mana problems - with our main spells made more expensive we are constantly low on mana, but everyone expect us to heal and support. Old MC was too good - please reconsider it 500 - 600 instant area so we can cope with increased mana usage, pull down mana usage of heals and dispell, so we will not need to constantly watch our mana, and conserve for 1 sanct or Steel skin. I suppose NGD want conjus to team with support knights. Maybe this will be good if knights want to be support and want to support conjurers with auras and protection. Then we will tank because of knight auras and if things go bad we will use our sorcery spells. This can work maybe we will see. We just need something to be done so knight and conjus supportive sides to be made better and more more appealing. I'm usually glad to have some supportive teammates who protect me. I spare all my mana to help them. So calm down and wait a little - do not act so impulsive we still do not see whole picture. Please be nice, supportive and if something is not right i know NGD will listen to us so all will be alright. __________________ RA \| Ignis \| Lilla My \| Conjurer \| EVIL IGNIS ROCK Horus \| Syrtis \| ieti \| Conjurer \| INQUISITION \| LONG GONE

07-26-2010, 09:50 AM	#163
Gabburtjuh Baron Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere where grinding does NOT exist Posts: 822	my biggest problem is terrors wills till overlap, which is the whole problem of terror, and gh worries me to, since alsius already lacks in support conjs most of the time. __________________ EX - Dutch Wannabe OP/Tank / Wannado Bash marks/knight/barb 60 Chuck Norris hunter 52 One Bite Snack, 60 barb / Wang King, 60 knight

07-26-2010, 10:31 AM	#164
e30G Count Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Philippines Posts: 1,244	(moving it to it's own thread) __________________ I N Q U I S I T I O N On Regnum Sabbatical Last edited by e30ernest; 07-26-2010 at 10:48 AM.

07-26-2010, 11:35 AM	#167
ncvr Marquis Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 2,439	I assume the TFB change means that TFB's cast ignores the current attack cycle, like kick.