balance Update 2011 Stage 1 - Summary

[53453467734534]

i think with these durations, fight become 'normal hit fights' the one with the best weapon wins.

CC's are useless this way, you waiste 1 normal hit by casting a CC spell to disable a target for some time. Whitin that time you should be able to hit that target at least 2 times, else the CC is completely useless.

Right, stupid "Hack & Slay".

I don´t know, if you read my posts here, but this was exactly, what i had in my mind.
See here: http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...3&postcount=64

And you are not only wasting 1 normal hit (or attack spell), you are wasting
up to 5 power points. And keep in mind, that there are many protective abilities and spells against CCs. You can´t even be sure, that you will succeed.

[Vroek]

Originally Posted by Darcyeti

And isn't it much more fun to fight and (maybe) win (maybe loose) by knowing your opponent has fun too?

Looking forward to getting zerged with "the new fun system".

[NSer]

Originally Posted by Vroek

Looking forward to getting zerged with "the new fun system".

It's already here^^

[bois]

I still don't understand why certain CC, especially knock is calculated in terms of hits on target. If you get knocked for 3 seconds and 2/3/4/5 players attack you simultaneously , how many hits is that? CC and especially knock should be viewed in the form of application of an interrupt rather than how many hits (aka beat down) one opponent can apply in the time. Isn't that hack and slay anyway? and besides if CC has a damage component attached to it, that is not "a hit" ?

I keep seeing the same post referenced but I read it every time and I am convinced no more, the more I read it. Certain spells no matter how you scale the duration will lead to an underpowered spell on the low end and overpowered on the high end. This is why I say scale another component that has a lesser chance to be skewed like that.
As far as fort wars go, knock is an interrupt. The solution for the popping in and out was suggested a while back too. Apply either a cast time to go back in the gate or , when you pop out you do appear on the door but some way out (like old Imperia) This negates the spam on the door and makes popping in and out much more risky. Fixing a spell such as knock to cover such situational conditions is not the way to go.

[Darcyeti]

Originally Posted by bois

The politically correct answer is 'yes' but in reality that answer is 'no' for a lot of players.

Maybe I'm just to old to understand why killing someones fun is funny for a lot of players. Can only talk for myself, I like it if every player has fun in a game, that all of us like to play.

[NSer]

Originally Posted by Darcyeti

Maybe I'm just to old to understand why killing someones fun is funny for a lot of players. Can only talk for myself, I like it if every player has fun in a game, that all of us like to play.

Agree but here is smaaaaaaaaall problem.... Zerging isn't fun at all

[NSer]

Well til some time i had no opinion about ambush but now.... NGD ur gonna kill teh hunter! they won't be able to reach us (locks) and use ambush helping 3 barbs kill us!

[53453467734534]

still don't understand why certain CC, especially knock is calculated in terms of hits on target. If you get knocked for 3 seconds and 2/3/4/5 players attack you simultaneously , how many hits is that? CC and especially knock should be viewed in the form of application of an interrupt rather than how many hits (aka beat down) one opponent can apply in the time. Isn't that hack and slay anyway? and besides if CC has a damage component attached to it, that is not "a hit" ?

CCs don´t help the "Zerg" army. This isn´t true.
In addition to my replies to Seher http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...0&post1383970:

If all CCs are short ,the "Spartans" (= good outnumbered players) cannot control their opponents at least so long to kill one or two enemies. They cannot even keep at least some enemies (for example the healing conjurer) out of action. Every enemy will be back in action immediately.

If CCs are even removed, more damage (=more players) is the only thing that really matters.

But on the other hand short CCs do help the Zerg. 1 Spartan can only keep someone down for 3 seconds. 5 Zerg can STILL do it indefinitely (long enough). Ok, fine, it may be possible, that you get up again once (because of short CCs). But what are your options? Kicking one of them down for 3 seconds. You will probably be kept down anyway. Good Zergs will stand behind your back.

This applies also to other CCs: If CCs are shorter, deadly chains will still be possible BUT only if many players combine them This isn´t a good idea at all. At least not in a Spartan vs Zerg scenario.

Indeed, there is one place, where your argument is valid:
In front of the door. If you can get up you can click and you are safe.
But now, this comes into play: http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...20#post1199020

As far as fort wars go, knock is an interrupt. The solution for the popping in and out was suggested a while back too. Apply either a cast time to go back in the gate or , when you pop out you do appear on the door but some way out (like old Imperia) This negates the spam on the door and makes popping in and out much more risky. Fixing a spell such as knock to cover such situational conditions is not the way to go.

If someone needs to cast "Enter Gate", 5 Zerg will still kill you (interrupt your cast again and again). Conversely: One Spartan Barbarian can kick a Zerg player once, but cannot hit him during that time. Afterwards the Zerg Barbarian can kick him for 3 seconds.
Other Zerg players will kick his .... If the Zerg player has low health he can still cast "Entry Gate" after his own kick.

("Long") CCs are the friends of your little Spartan army

P.S: "Long" CCs contains my nerf suggestion (25% time reduction, see last posts)
I was actually a nerf advocate LOL, but this is getting out of hand.

I really don´t understand how short CCs will help the Spartans.
My replie to Seher is also still valid.

[bois]

1. I said certain CC. I also said that CCs must be handled differently. I am still for reductions. I am just of the opinion that some remain static (with other component) and some with scaled durations. That won't change no matter how many incessant (and irritating I might add) cascading links you place in your posts for me to follow.

2. The discussion is centred around single target CC. Spartan vs zerg war will invariably involve area CC to a much greater extent. The Spartans will invariably have to deliver these in telling blows to have an effect. Single target CC (1 to 1) is not going to help you that much here in the initial instance. What it can do is put off certain members of the enemy long enough for you to deliver your areas. A short CC will accomplish that. The areas that follow will obviously be more debilitating and have longer durations than the singular ones.
But, I am not discussing Multiple target CC yet and that must be handled differently anyway.

When we get there I will address that.

3. Spartan gets knocked for a long time is dead, possibly by one opponent, no chance without a dispell. Spartan gets knocked for short time may still be dead but requires more effort and maybe more players to be kept down. It also introduces a "chance" to get up and do something. Depending on the disparity between armies this may give allies opportunities. If several are piling CC on you that means somebody may be freed up elsewhere. It is also driving their CC into cooldowns.
With long CC this opportunity never comes about. Whether you live or die is not as important as the impression that you actually have a chance to do something about it and not be a helpless spectator to your death. Your opponent cannot relax either.

[NSer]

Originally Posted by 53453467734534

CCs don´t help the "Zerg" army. This isn´t true.
In addition to my replies to Seher http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...0&post1383970:

If all CCs are short ,the "Spartans" (= good outnumbered players) cannot control their opponents at least so long to kill one or two enemies. They cannot even keep at least some enemies (for example the healing conjurer) out of action. Every enemy will be back in action immediately.

If CCs are even removed, more damage (=more players) is the only thing that really matters.

But on the other hand short CCs do help the Zerg. 1 Spartan can only keep someone down for 3 seconds. 5 Zerg can STILL do it indefinitely (long enough). Ok, fine, it may be possible, that you get up again once (because of short CCs). But what are your options? Kicking one of them down for 3 seconds. You will probably be kept down anyway. Good Zergs will stand behind your back.

This applies also to other CCs: If CCs are shorter, deadly chains will still be possible BUT only if many players combine them This isn´t a good idea at all. At least not in a Spartan vs Zerg scenario.

Indeed, there is one place, where your argument is valid:
In front of the door. If you can get up you can click and you are safe.
But now, this comes into play: http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...20#post1199020



If someone needs to cast "Enter Gate", 5 Zerg will still kill you (interrupt your cast again and again). Conversely: One Spartan Barbarian can kick a Zerg player once, but cannot hit him during that time. Afterwards the Zerg Barbarian can kick him for 3 seconds.
Other Zerg players will kick his .... If the Zerg player has low health he can still cast "Entry Gate" after his own kick.

("Long") CCs are the friends of your little Spartan army

P.S: "Long" CCs contains my nerf suggestion (25% time reduction, see last posts)
I was actually a nerf advocate LOL, but this is getting out of hand.

I really don´t understand how short CCs will help the Spartans.
My replie to Seher is also still valid.

Good point...... But Currently we have same problem! Most of warriors skill kick/feint 4/5 most of archers have ambush 4/5 and seems only me on whole horus don't use will domain!