balance Update 2011 Stage 1 - Summary

[standistortion]

Think just about everything has already been suggested with CC's, couple of thoughts just in case:

1st cast is the only one of its type to have an effect. If someone gets kicked then gets kicked again while still down the 2nd kick is wasted, it doesnt add to the duration (maybe still does damage).

An 'on guard' state after recovering from a knock. The player is in a defensive state taking less damage and with less chance of being knocked again but with a lower hit rate or reduced attack.

Just my 2c, there are plenty of great suggestions in this thread already.

[_Nel_]

Originally Posted by standistortion

1st cast is the only one of its type to have an effect. If someone gets kicked then gets kicked again while still down the 2nd kick is wasted, it doesnt add to the duration (maybe still does damage).

Nah chilko said it's not elegant enough.
> http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum....php?p=1093808

[Latan]

Originally Posted by _Nel_

Nah chilko said it's not elegant enough.
> http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum....php?p=1093808

worst decision ever

[SPARTISH]

I don’t think the whole CC system should be changed just because barbs are owning you...

Faint and Kick

Although most barbs hit over 1000 damage on me a normal hit but lets say a barb combines normal hits of 800 with faint and kick, you can get away with 2 very slow hits when a person is knocked down so...

Faint
Normal (+800)
Normal (+800)
Kick
Normal (+800)
Normal (+800)

That’s 3,200 damage with abit of restriction on the amount a barb can hit, if the barb hits higher and adds in other spells such as southcross or ripost this should be enough to kill most people.

A knight on the other hand hitting say about half the damage of a barb will still be able to hit a total of 1,600 (again restricting as most knights hit 600 on me and some even above 1000 with southcross, also knights will have a faster weapon which could mean they could fit in 6 hits of 350 or something?).

The problems that people complain about (i think) are;
- the ability to disable a player for such a long time (both barbs and knights)
- the amount of damage they can hit while you are disabled

Some of my ideas to solve the "Problem"

The ability to disable a player for a long amount of time
One idea is changing one of the knocks to a 50% (more or less) chance to knock adding in the element of luck, this would most likely be kick since it already contributes to damage.

Another idea is increasing the cooldown time to 45 seconds or so, this way in a fight if a warrior chooses to use the faint kick combo he will need to wait a while for them to recharge, you could also slightly increase the mana for them to use it more wisely?

Kick is actually faster than an "instant" spell
Change kick to a normal instant cast like faint rather than actually being instant (i still have mixed opinions about this though).

The high damage while you are disabled
Barbarians get their extremely high hits mainly from berzerk which is sometimes combined with colossus (providing it’s a group with at least one conjurer).

Berzerk level 4/5
+42/50% damage
-100% evade chance
240/270 Mana
Duration 40 seconds
Cooldown 40 seconds

Collossus level 4/5
+40/50% strength
-25% Health
210/240 Mana
Duration 40 seconds
Cooldown 9seconds

I don’t see a problem in colossus because they usually need a conjurer to heal them up after cast however, I have a few suggestions for berzerk.

My solution to reducing some of the hard hitting while disabling is in this "raging state in which the barbarian is not aware of anything but what she destroys" known as berzerk the caster cannot use any non damaging spells (I was thinking a full on dizzy but that’s a bit too much?). This will stop barbarians from disabling people for twice as long by combining kick and faint and forces the barb to play a bit more carefully (personally I would prefer if the duration was around 30/40 seconds and the cooldown was 60 seconds, similar to how caution and frenzy works)

Another point on berzerk is that -100% evade chance is not much for a barbarian to risk and a good alternative would be a reduction in armour points (max-50% or something). If not another point is the concept of loosing 100% evading chance is defeated with unstoppable madness giving up to 90% resistance for: immobilize, knock, freeze, stun, dizzy and cannot attack for up to 10 seconds. Even though it is only 10 seconds the two powers shouldn't contradict with each other.

[Seher]

Originally Posted by bois

I suggested that many moons ago and I think I was almost burned at the stake for even mentioning it.

I know exactly what you mean. It's amazing to see how more and more players switch to "our side" :P

Originally Posted by pauluzz

i think with these durations, fight become 'normal hit fights' the one with the best weapon wins.

I know it seems rather obvious that something like this might happen, hay I even agreed with many points of that weird number name guy (), but there are games with 2 second knock downs, and they're more hardcore (skill oriented) than Regnum will ever be. It works without long Knock downs. There are many other options to reward player skill, we don't need frustrating ones like long knock downs. They do help a lot, but there are also many downsides other effects don't have.

[SPARTISH]

Originally Posted by Seher

I know exactly what you mean. It's amazing to see how more and more players switch to "our side" :P

I know it seems rather obvious that something like this might happen, hay I even agreed with many points of that weird number name guy (), but there are games with 2 second knock downs, and they're more hardcore (skill oriented) than Regnum will ever be. It works without long Knock downs. There are many other options to reward player skill, we don't need frustrating ones like long knock downs. They do help a lot, but there are also many downsides other effects don't have.

Why stop there, remove all the spells so we can just run aroundswinging our wepons, oh what fun we will have.

I dont get why you people have all of a sudden started to complain about everything...you got rid of terror, made hunters weak, knights (IMO) are no were near as defensive as they once were, conjurers have rubbish heals (IMO), and now your on barbs and next its marksmen...ruining the game here.

And if your going to compare stuff between games give examples...

[Seher]

All of a sudden? My complaints about knock downs are pretty much everything but not sudden. :P
An example? Guild Wars. (THE example, as there's nearly no MMO without copied guild wars stuff) 2 seconds knock downs, most of them just working when strange conditions are met. Still undeniably the most skill oriented game.

[SPARTISH]

Originally Posted by Seher

All of a sudden? My complaints about knock downs are pretty much everything but not sudden. :P An example? Guild Wars. (THE example, as there's nearly no MMO without copied guild wars stuff) 2 seconds knock downs, most of them just working when strange conditions are met. Still undeniably the most skill oriented game.

I asked about examples so i could say....this is regnum online not guildwars, if your such a fan of guildwars go play that?....but ive never heard/seen guildwars before so i searched up some gameplay and it looks incredably boring to me. 2 archers dueling stood still throwing stuff with shit animotions and glowing things, no movement no knocks no nothing from what i can see, how exiting this game has soo much skill. The reason why 2 second knockdown may pass off in that game is it's fast pase, you can probably get a couple of shots in while the person is down for 2 seconds whereas regnum is a more slow paced game.


P.S. im up for slightly reducing CC's but not all the way down to 2 seconds...If knockdowns lasted 2 second imo nobody would use them, why cast a 2second knockdown which is barely anything when you can hit the oponent? try using a lvl 1 knockdown on a mob, it really is nothing.

[Seher]

Guild Wars has pretty much the best spells, but many other aspects are flawed. (And in fact I just wait for a game with advantages of both games, there just is no such game)
And trying to argument towards guild wars not being skill dependent is a bad idea, trust me :P It's rather too skill oriented and hence not really open for beginners, and it isn't relaxing.

But it is true that GW is more fast paced, or rather should be more fast paced (Barbarians currently can kill way too fast), so 2 seconds might actually be too short, but 1. knocks aren't exactly what you'd call weak in guild wars, and 2. there's no RvR there, and RvR doesn't like long duration CCs at all.

Originally Posted by SPARTISH

why cast a 2second knockdown which is barely anything when you can hit the oponent?

...
100% damage vs. 100% damage + 2 seconds knock. Now what's better?

[SPARTISH]

Ok but each game has its own level of skill, to me guild wars looked like an expansion of world of warcraft. You can even say runescape is a game which is based on skill but it is different to WOW and GW. Same with Regnum it is slightly different so has its own skill imo. But this game is RvR and you can't compare it to a PvP type game because it's different...Even tho this game is slow pased people still complain about getting killed fast.

Barbs aren't owning you just because of double knockdowns, being a warrior you need the assistance of knockdowns for fighting at point blank range. Archers and mages need knockdowns to keep warriors away and to gain advantages over other archers and mages.

A barb can keep you disabled for 16 seconds with knocks, with deafining roar and thunderstrike its a max of 43 seconds,
A marksmen can keep you disabled for up to 29 seconds (37 seconds with a stunning fist),
A warlock for 52 seconds (inc bettle swarm but not counting ivy, twister or mind push).

(Please bear in mind they may not have enough powers to get all this)

Seeing these figures i think knockdowns can be reduced to 5 seconds and spells that freeze and stuns should be reduced by alot.

Although these tactical powers help the barb kill you it doesn't help them hit extremely high allowing them to kill you in seconds...Look at my suggestions, if a barbarian had more of a risk when using berzerk it would be more appropriate. If a barb had a reduction in armor points when using berzerk he is forced to choose between defence and offence, also if he had a reduction in the powers he uses (damage only) he wont be able to be too use howl/deafening roar/faint...a more extreme approach change to no spells so while using berzerk a barbarian cannot stack the damage onto already high damage attacks such as ripost and southcross.

Originally Posted by Saher

100% damage vs. 100% damage + 2 seconds knock. Now what's better?

You got that wrong, 100% damage vs 100% damage +2 seconds knock, it should be 100% damage + 100% damage vs 100% 2% knock. If you are going to knock a person down for 2 seconds with a very slow weapon he will get back up before your next hit therefore making the knockdown nothing more than a waste of mana and a hit...

Hit - Get Hit
Hit - Get Hit
Kockdown - Gets Back up Get Hit Instantly
Hit - Get Hit
Hit - Get Hit

However, i see that in a large fight if you are close to death a 5 second knockdown could sometimes be enough to save you, in the instance a warrior is killing you while your group is fighting him and you knock him down which saves you from 1 hit while your teamates secure a kill. But It would have to be a minimum of 5 seconds if anything.