Whats my role?

[Freeverse]

Originally Posted by Seher

Poorest. Role. Ever.

I don't agree.
Tracking is a ability, which saves asses of other players. Many, many, many times. During hunting. During fortwars. When bridges are camped.

Originally Posted by Tenel_Ka

Hunters are responsible for leading smaller groups through enemy warzones and protecting its own realm's warzone by tracking down enemy hunting groups. They can stalker allies for surprise attacks, or to protect them from a larger force. In RvR, if used tactfully, hunters can monitor the movement of enemy war groups and recapture forts from the inside so their allies can rush inside. They can stalker allies in and out of heavily protected places, such as realm gates and cities. [...]

+1
Nothing more to add. That's the hunters role.

[Seher]

Originally Posted by Immune

They are built as a pvp class, but blocking bridges has always been a part of RvR.

Not everything that’s useful for RvR is part of it. It’s nice and useful to go to the toilet before you go on a trip with your car but it’s still in no way part of driving, lol.

Originally Posted by Immune

Small Groups - Stalker rushes can work wonders; the only problem is getting other people to go along with it. Their burst damage can easily cause mages to panic and/or force other classes to try to stop you, which often gives your allies a chance to do something. Even just setting your pet on a mage can make them feel forced to run around and make mistakes.

Stalker: Yay, one action every 5 minutes.
Pressure via pet: Not only does it die fast, the pressure of a marksman is superior.

Originally Posted by Immune

Large Groups - Going camo and attacking people in a zerg from behind may be suicidal, but really it can take them a long time to realize you're there. Being able to CC whoever you want in the back can cause the group to split somewhat. You can also buff your pet with skin of the beast and use it as a distraction; this works particularly well if you have an obnoxiously large pet like the troll of war.

It is suicidal. The time to get there when there’s actually a rush is better used otherwise, even for a hunter. Even if you’d manage to CC someone. Run 20 seconds to disable one enemy for 7 seconds, of course, great tactic.

Originally Posted by Immune

Closing note: The lack of role for a hunter is actually a freedom, in a way.

You are right. A class with no role can do everything, hunters are actually pretty balanced there, they suck similarly at everything. But: Other classes can work outside their intended fields, too. They might receive odd looks because they’d be better off doing something else, but it works. And for sure not worse than for hunters.

Originally Posted by Freeverse

I don't agree.
Tracking is a ability, which saves asses of other players. Many, many, many times. During hunting. During fortwars. When bridges are camped.

Imagine you’ve got a character that can only cast warmaster beacons, and maybe teleports. That would save waaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy more lives. Is it fun to play? No? But still more fun than being a tracking slave.
Not to mention that you clearly missed that thing called reality. When was the last time a tracking info you’ve read was actually useful? How often do you need tracking info, and do you need it during a fight? (Hunter — the class that’s not supposed to participate in fights, yay!) I’m already saying that casting one thing every minute isn’t enough to give a class a role (booooring!!), and you basically say that casting ONE FUCKING SPELL, not even during fights, and with a useful result every few HOURS is a better role?
Oh, and what if — and just if — there happens to be MORE THAN ONE HUNTER? I know I know, not that likely to happen nowadays, but let’s just assume we’ve got well populated servers and more than 5% of the players are hunters. (Should be 16%, by the way) Is the second hunter redundant? You just need one player to track.

[Immune]

Originally Posted by Seher

Not everything that’s useful for RvR is part of it. It’s nice and useful to go to the toilet before you go on a trip with your car but it’s still in no way part of driving, lol.

How is it not part of it? You are participating in the act of killing the enemies, and have an effect on the larger fight as a result. RvR is the concept of teams working together; just because you are not with your zerg doesn't mean you can't help them win a fight.

Originally Posted by Seher

Stalker: Yay, one action every 5 minutes.
Pressure via pet: Not only does it die fast, the pressure of a marksman is superior.

The concept behind stalker is perfectly valid. The accessibility is all that needs work.
Skin of the beast works too.

Originally Posted by Seher

It is suicidal. The time to get there when there’s actually a rush is better used otherwise, even for a hunter. Even if you’d manage to CC someone. Run 20 seconds to disable one enemy for 7 seconds, of course, great tactic.

You go -before- there's a rush. If there happens to be a rush when you get there, great. If not, give your group an opportunity to rush. And it's your own fault if you only have 1 CC.

Originally Posted by Seher

You are right. A class with no role can do everything, hunters are actually pretty balanced there, they suck similarly at everything. But: Other classes can work outside their intended fields, too. They might receive odd looks because they’d be better off doing something else, but it works. And for sure not worse than for hunters.

They only suck when you try to play like a marks- which a lot do for some reason. I wouldn't list these tactics if I didn't use them successfully myself. If they don't work for you, well... not sure what else to tell you.

If you have 2+ hunters... camo tactics can be potentially even more dangerous. Also not all hunters have the same level tracking. Also more frequent stalker rushes.

[Seher]

Originally Posted by Immune

How is it not part of it? You are participating in the act of killing the enemies, and have an effect on the larger fight as a result. RvR is the concept of teams working together; just because you are not with your zerg doesn't mean you can't help them win a fight.

As I’ve said, you help, but it’s not part of the actual fight. If you want to, you can call it part of RvR, but it isn’t, especially game play wise, and that’s what matters. Huge RvR battles are the only thing making Regnum unique, it doesn’t make sense to have a class not able to participate.

Originally Posted by Immune

The concept behind stalker is perfectly valid. The accessibility is all that needs work.

True. I still can’t see a whole support class focusing on that, though, you can’t bring those spells on a heal ally like level.

Originally Posted by Immune

Skin of the beast works too.

It does, but it still won’t live that long in the enemy army. And even if it did live forever, marksman damage is still way superior, especially when you consider knocks which you can’t protect your pet against.

Originally Posted by Immune

You go -before- there's a rush. If there happens to be a rush when you get there, great. If not, give your group an opportunity to rush. And it's your own fault if you only have 1 CC.

Maybe I’ve been playing a different game for the past 4 years, but that’s not exactly how it works. ;P Going there before a rush is nice if it works. Depends highly on your team mates and can often give you quite the headache. All in all it’s not worth the hassle, especially when you miss important buffs like onslaught (the only time when hunters deal damage). The CCs can be cast some seconds later — that doesn’t do any harm, it might even be better to spike the CCs.
Giving your group an opportunity to rush? The last time that worked was… When did NGD remove old sotw again?
And it’s certainly not your fault that you can only cast one CC until you’re dead.

Originally Posted by Immune

They only suck when you try to play like a marks- which a lot do for some reason. I wouldn't list these tactics if I didn't use them successfully myself.

I’m just saying that other classes can always do the same if not better, the only things other classes can’t do are camo (utterly useless 99% of the time) and tracking (almost always useless, boring as fuck if supposed to be the primary role).

[Archefiend]

Thx for your opinions, but please, no arguing. There are other threads for that.
Immune are ya syrtis? If so, contact me in game please.
As for stalker surroundings skill(I always take this skill with camo)- I cant convince anybody to use it whit me, any advice with that?
Camo-> Confuse trips I have tried out already, If theres more than 1 conj outside, it have no effect at all. DS isn't zerg spell. And for those, who are asking why most hunters sit on fort walls- most of us think that going outside is suicide.
Ps. These days marxes sit behind conjus, I find it hard to cast more than 1 spell and escape.

[71175]

Role of hunter: not initiating fight he will surely lose without any profit
Addresed personally to topic starter

[Archefiend]

Originally Posted by 71175

Role of hunter: not initiating fight he will surely lose without any profit
Addresed personally to topic starter

Hah :P There's some thruth in it

[Immune]

Originally Posted by 71175

Role of hunter: not initiating fight he will surely lose without any profit
Addresed personally to topic starter

Pfft. I get lots of profit from initiating fights...

Originally Posted by archefiend

Thx for your opinions, but please, no arguing. There are other threads for that.
Immune are ya syrtis? If so, contact me in game please.
As for stalker surroundings skill(I always take this skill with camo)- I cant convince anybody to use it whit me, any advice with that?
Camo-> Confuse trips I have tried out already, If theres more than 1 conj outside, it have no effect at all. DS isn't zerg spell. And for those, who are asking why most hunters sit on fort walls- most of us think that going outside is suicide.
Ps. These days marxes sit behind conjus, I find it hard to cast more than 1 spell and escape.

I rarely play Horus anymore; I am Alsius on this server. As for getting people to stalker... well, even though I advocate it's use, I haven't carried it recently because of the issue you're describing. No one cooperates.
If the group you are attacking has multiple conjus, try confusing one and stun the other (hoping they don't have DI up). If that's not viable, wait until an opportunity comes where you can do some damage (Ie, one of them gets separated somehow, they start rushing, or your group rushes).
It's not -always- possible to do something productive I admit. Sometimes you just have to wait until you can work with the circumstances.

[makarios68]

I read this thread and remembered another thread i started some time ago, which some hunter players told me they found useful.

I realise that some of the things in it are out dated (like rep shot no longer does 1000 dmg, for eg), but i still think there are some useful points here.

( i didn't know how to link the thread, so i just copied and pasted it - clumsy i know)

(Fekin noob i am, i forgot to paste, hence the edit):

I'm posting this thread because lately i've heard a lot of people saying that hunters need to be given more of an RvR role. This is puzzling to me, because as far as i'm concerned, they already have plenty of potential RvR roles - it's just that most hunters choose not to play this way, and instead prefer the easier option of ganking lvlers.

Hunters can be particularly effective at RvR when in a small and co-ordinated group. This is not just argument - myself and Comp and a couple of others regularly used to put these methods into practice.

Examples of how hunters can be useful in RVR:

1. When your fort is taken, lie in wait at the bridge for reinforcements. With the element of surprise, 3 or 4 hunters can wipe 6 or 7 enemies at once. That's 6 or 7 less enemies for your allies to deal with at the fort. Cast stalker surroundings, rinse and repeat.

2. Even at the fort, hunters can be effective. With 2 or 3 hunters working together, key targets can be taken out. Identify the target (usually a conj), confuse, kill, escape - rinse and repeat.

3. Rep shot = 1000 dmg to all in range. Why don't more hunter packs work together in using this amazing skill?

4. Even solo hunters can play a useful role for their team in large scale fights. And its all about timing. At fort fights i usually see hunters standing out in the open fighting toe-to-toe with the enemy. I think this is a waste of their potential. Use camo at forts! Choose your moment well. If your team gets pushed back by the enemy, there's always one of them that pushes out too far. Be in the right place and time to ambush him as your side starts to push back. A hunter is also the best class to finish off that retreating enemy on low health but out of reach of the ranged classes. Appear out of nowhere and finish him off, just as he thinks he has escaped.

5. IMO the most important RvR role for a hunter (or small group of hunters) is to kill enemy hunters in your land. I hear people complain that hunters can't be caught. Of course they can! - by other hunters! If your land is full of enemy hunters ganking lvlers, it's probably because all your own hunters are in their land killing their lvlers. IMO the ganking of lvlers is made too easy for hunters because too few friendly hunters take on the anti-hunter role.


In summary, i don't think there is a lack of RvR roles for hunters, just a lack of desire on the part of many hunters to help their realm. Unfortunately, many hunters prefer the more selfish and much easier option of killing (often defensless) lvlers.

[_Kharbon_]

Originally Posted by makarios68

...

Interesting tips, I agree with the fact that hunters can be deadly, if coordinated well. The problem is, that the current hunters don't always have the neccecary experience, setup or equipment, not talking about how rare they are today...

Also, while fort-groups have usualy decent coordination and numbers, hunters try to fight solo, and they often don't work together. This is a shame, as they could take out conjurers effectively, the element of surprise is underrated.

With the current gamestate, a lone warrior or marksman has higher chance of taking out a conjurer than a hunter, I'd say...