Version 1.10.7 - Balance update (In progress) - Page 2

Awrath · 01-31-2014, 11:57 PM

Glad to see some consideration for balance.

In my opinion there are a few fundamental changes that need to take place before balance of spells and subclasses can even be considered. Two very important concepts are flawed and any attempts to balance with these flaws will prove difficult.

The first is the current armour system. Absolute damage reduction needs to go, because the net effect of it is what we see today, knights being hit for 20-30 by archers while they are under defensive stance, the spell itself is only OP due to absolute damage reductions. In the current state balance is skewed further by those with good gear vs those with bad gear. The reason why we have people paying $200 for dragon amulets is because of the significant benefits it provides vs this current armour system, in comparison to "normal" gear.

The second step that needs to taken is getting rid of shared spell trees. As long as these exist it will be difficult to balance individual subclasses. For example, parabolic shot on archers, while it is a very useful spell, I don't think that marksmen require that insane gain in range from parabolic level 5. With separate spell trees these spells can be tweaked to offer different end results to each individual subclass.

After these two things are done, then you can consider balancing spells and subclasses, as the steps taken from that point will be a hell of a lot easier.

Once that's done, there needs to be adjustments made to the duration of certain stun spells (dist shot, roar), duration of darkness. I still think for RvR purposes knocks are far too long in duration (yeah hate lvl 5 knock spammers) and 4 seconds is more than enough for a knock. What I would rather see with knocks is reduced CD/Mana cost per level rather than increases in duration.

The big balance issue however is mages. Since the raise of level cap to level 60 (And the introduction of 20 power points for all that further skewed balance), every other class has gained more damage, however mages still lag behind. The fact that if you have too many warlocks, there's no point in casting lighting/ice blast on the same target is a big let down.

I agree that the duration of camouflage is too long, and I also agree that the duration of stalker is too long. Both of these spells used in combination at level 5 = unlimited invisibility.

DI needs a reduction in duration, and it needs an animation that is visible 100% of the time, as it sucks when you turn to ambush a DI barb, and the next thing you see is kick (5).

The range that marksmen have available needs to be reduced.

Protect ally needs a bit more range and needs to be an instant spell to be more useful in war. In it's current it can only be used in 3 situations. The target is knocked, the target is still, the target is running towards you and you towards them. If they are running away from you, even if they are 2m in front of you, by the time you cast they are out of range.

With the introduction of dual wield you increased barbarian DPS greatly, without considering the impact it will have on war. This needs to be looked at.

I'm sure there's more but that's all I can think of for now.

Fiver · 02-01-2014, 02:56 AM

" 11) When a hunter jumps out of camouflage (but not because of reveal spell), make it imposible to cast any spell during 3 seconds.

Reason: this should avoid that hunters do the obvious combo "distraction shot -> rapid shot -> dirty fighting -> ambush -> cold blood", in a enemy who had absolutely no chance of getting prepaired to this, nor to fight back. "

2 ccs and 3 buffs to do meaningful damage for 3-4 hits every 60 seconds and marginal damage against real end game players wearing all that money can buy.
If anything in there fails you lose big.

Fix hunters its your game you figure it out!!

errei · 02-01-2014, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiver

" 11) When a hunter jumps out of camouflage (but not because of reveal spell), make it imposible to cast any spell during 3 seconds.

Reason: this should avoid that hunters do the obvious combo "distraction shot -> rapid shot -> dirty fighting -> ambush -> cold blood", in a enemy who had absolutely no chance of getting prepaired to this, nor to fight back. "

2 ccs and 3 buffs to do meaningful damage for 3-4 hits every 60 seconds and marginal damage against real end game players wearing all that money can buy.
If anything in there fails you lose big.

Fix hunters its your game you figure it out!!

i guess u r a ganker who got rly hurt by a suggestion. but anyway, resist is not the discussion in this thread. pls focus in suggestions =)

TryHarder · 02-01-2014, 04:48 AM

Darkness reduced to 15 seconds at level 5.
SotW should be 100% resist. Duration of 10 seconds.
Recharged Arrows should take 25 mana per shot and 200 damage at level 5
Sticky Touch cast time reduced to .5 seconds and -20% at level 5
Obscurate and Sentinal should be switched
Specialist should be 30 damage at level 5
Escapist 100% evade. 10 seconds at level 5
Lightness bumped up to 20 dex at level 5
Remove the speed malus from focus
Remove Fulmi
Remove Cold blood. Give hunters another passive dmg boost. 30 damage at level 5.
Change sentinal to 15 elemental damage at level 5. 5per element
Wits should give 100-200 mana at level 5
UM should be 100%
Slow should be reduced to -20% speed at level 5. Duration 10 seconds. CD 45.
Strategic should be put into a hunter tree. Reduced to -25% range damage.
Wind wall should be -35% ranged damage at level 5.
Locks should get a spell to give -15-20% phys damage at level 5 too.
Terror should have a fixed knockdown value and same damage on all targets.
Life savior should be instant
Protect ally should be instant
Skin of the beast should only be 50% at level 5.
Death sentence should be 30-50 physical damage. That way it affects archers, pets, and warriors
Mind Blank should be like defensive stance in that it stops you from being able to cast offensive powers
SotW should be 100% at level 5 but disallow the casting of offensive powers.
Mana burn should be removed
Sadistic Servants should be -15mana per tick at level 5
Vampirism should be 750-1k hp at level 5
Energy barrier should be 1.5k at level 5
Mana communion should be 30mana per tick at level 5
Soul Keeper should be 200 hp per tick at level 5

All 1v1 CCs for every class should be 5 seconds at level 5. All area CCs should be 10 seconds max.

Loque · 02-01-2014, 06:35 AM

All CCs(excluding areas) in the game namely knocks, stuns, dizzy and immobilize should get rid of their levels and should be only a condition of on or off with the same duration on all of them.

For example, you put 1 point in Kick to enable it, you get Kick, there is no Kick(1-5). Duration can be 5 seconds (variable value).

Az. · 02-01-2014, 06:43 AM

Div Intervention: Perhaps this can be made a self buff (i think suggested elsewhere). This would prevent it's OP effect on barbs and prevent the OP effect of confuse/darkness on support conjus. Spell may be fixed duration at all levels with reduced mana cost at each lvl (lvl5 at cost DI is now maybe?). However, this will probably make warju too OP

(maybe 30s dur with 40s cd could be a way around it).

The converse spell; Darkness: A similar idea, fixed duration with reduced mana cost at each level (lvl 5 is current mana cost), 15s dur is probably enough.

errei · 02-01-2014, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irsh

All CCs(excluding areas) in the game namely knocks, stuns, dizzy and immobilize should get rid of their levels and should be only a condition of on or off with the same duration on all of them.

For example, you put 1 point in Kick to enable it, you get Kick, there is no Kick(1-5). Duration can be 5 seconds (variable value).

luved this idea =)

TryHarder · 02-01-2014, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irsh

All CCs(excluding areas) in the game namely knocks, stuns, dizzy and immobilize should get rid of their levels and should be only a condition of on or off with the same duration on all of them.

For example, you put 1 point in Kick to enable it, you get Kick, there is no Kick(1-5). Duration can be 5 seconds (variable value).

Which leaves 4 more PP to be used. The 20 PP we got from the level increase already ruined balance enough.

errei · 02-01-2014, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TryHarder

Which leaves 4 more PP to be used. The 20 PP we got from the level increase already ruined balance enough.

they are smart enough to remove a few PPs if they do some change as that

TryHarder · 02-01-2014, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by errei

they are smart enough to remove a few PPs if they do some change as that

...lollllllllllllll

02-01-2014, 06:43 AM	#16
Az. Pledge Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: New Zealand Posts: 40	Div Intervention: Perhaps this can be made a self buff (i think suggested elsewhere). This would prevent it's OP effect on barbs and prevent the OP effect of confuse/darkness on support conjus. Spell may be fixed duration at all levels with reduced mana cost at each lvl (lvl5 at cost DI is now maybe?). However, this will probably make warju too OP (maybe 30s dur with 40s cd could be a way around it). The converse spell; Darkness: A similar idea, fixed duration with reduced mana cost at each level (lvl 5 is current mana cost), 15s dur is probably enough. __________________ D E A D

01-31-2014, 11:57 PM	#11
Awrath Master Join Date: May 2010 Location: England Posts: 455	Glad to see some consideration for balance. In my opinion there are a few fundamental changes that need to take place before balance of spells and subclasses can even be considered. Two very important concepts are flawed and any attempts to balance with these flaws will prove difficult. The first is the current armour system. Absolute damage reduction needs to go, because the net effect of it is what we see today, knights being hit for 20-30 by archers while they are under defensive stance, the spell itself is only OP due to absolute damage reductions. In the current state balance is skewed further by those with good gear vs those with bad gear. The reason why we have people paying $200 for dragon amulets is because of the significant benefits it provides vs this current armour system, in comparison to "normal" gear. The second step that needs to taken is getting rid of shared spell trees. As long as these exist it will be difficult to balance individual subclasses. For example, parabolic shot on archers, while it is a very useful spell, I don't think that marksmen require that insane gain in range from parabolic level 5. With separate spell trees these spells can be tweaked to offer different end results to each individual subclass. After these two things are done, then you can consider balancing spells and subclasses, as the steps taken from that point will be a hell of a lot easier. Once that's done, there needs to be adjustments made to the duration of certain stun spells (dist shot, roar), duration of darkness. I still think for RvR purposes knocks are far too long in duration (yeah hate lvl 5 knock spammers) and 4 seconds is more than enough for a knock. What I would rather see with knocks is reduced CD/Mana cost per level rather than increases in duration. The big balance issue however is mages. Since the raise of level cap to level 60 (And the introduction of 20 power points for all that further skewed balance), every other class has gained more damage, however mages still lag behind. The fact that if you have too many warlocks, there's no point in casting lighting/ice blast on the same target is a big let down. I agree that the duration of camouflage is too long, and I also agree that the duration of stalker is too long. Both of these spells used in combination at level 5 = unlimited invisibility. DI needs a reduction in duration, and it needs an animation that is visible 100% of the time, as it sucks when you turn to ambush a DI barb, and the next thing you see is kick (5). The range that marksmen have available needs to be reduced. Protect ally needs a bit more range and needs to be an instant spell to be more useful in war. In it's current it can only be used in 3 situations. The target is knocked, the target is still, the target is running towards you and you towards them. If they are running away from you, even if they are 2m in front of you, by the time you cast they are out of range. With the introduction of dual wield you increased barbarian DPS greatly, without considering the impact it will have on war. This needs to be looked at. I'm sure there's more but that's all I can think of for now.

02-01-2014, 02:56 AM	#12
Fiver Apprentice Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 50	" 11) When a hunter jumps out of camouflage (but not because of reveal spell), make it imposible to cast any spell during 3 seconds. Reason: this should avoid that hunters do the obvious combo "distraction shot -> rapid shot -> dirty fighting -> ambush -> cold blood", in a enemy who had absolutely no chance of getting prepaired to this, nor to fight back. " 2 ccs and 3 buffs to do meaningful damage for 3-4 hits every 60 seconds and marginal damage against real end game players wearing all that money can buy. If anything in there fails you lose big. Fix hunters its your game you figure it out!!

02-01-2014, 04:48 AM	#14
TryHarder Pledge Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 42	Darkness reduced to 15 seconds at level 5. SotW should be 100% resist. Duration of 10 seconds. Recharged Arrows should take 25 mana per shot and 200 damage at level 5 Sticky Touch cast time reduced to .5 seconds and -20% at level 5 Obscurate and Sentinal should be switched Specialist should be 30 damage at level 5 Escapist 100% evade. 10 seconds at level 5 Lightness bumped up to 20 dex at level 5 Remove the speed malus from focus Remove Fulmi Remove Cold blood. Give hunters another passive dmg boost. 30 damage at level 5. Change sentinal to 15 elemental damage at level 5. 5per element Wits should give 100-200 mana at level 5 UM should be 100% Slow should be reduced to -20% speed at level 5. Duration 10 seconds. CD 45. Strategic should be put into a hunter tree. Reduced to -25% range damage. Wind wall should be -35% ranged damage at level 5. Locks should get a spell to give -15-20% phys damage at level 5 too. Terror should have a fixed knockdown value and same damage on all targets. Life savior should be instant Protect ally should be instant Skin of the beast should only be 50% at level 5. Death sentence should be 30-50 physical damage. That way it affects archers, pets, and warriors Mind Blank should be like defensive stance in that it stops you from being able to cast offensive powers SotW should be 100% at level 5 but disallow the casting of offensive powers. Mana burn should be removed Sadistic Servants should be -15mana per tick at level 5 Vampirism should be 750-1k hp at level 5 Energy barrier should be 1.5k at level 5 Mana communion should be 30mana per tick at level 5 Soul Keeper should be 200 hp per tick at level 5 All 1v1 CCs for every class should be 5 seconds at level 5. All area CCs should be 10 seconds max.

02-01-2014, 06:35 AM	#15
Loque Master Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 347	All CCs(excluding areas) in the game namely knocks, stuns, dizzy and immobilize should get rid of their levels and should be only a condition of on or off with the same duration on all of them. For example, you put 1 point in Kick to enable it, you get Kick, there is no Kick(1-5). Duration can be 5 seconds (variable value).