Purpose of Marksmen

[InsektO]

Originally Posted by seba_ktupe

I dread to think that NGD should inprove knight

I dread to think (?) you stop spamming this forum.


Back on topic...

I think marksmen are essential on dealing the initial damage to the enemy force. Prevent warlocks from casting Terror, and so. Lightning arrow is also very useful to help allies escape, or to stop the advance of the enemy.

It is true that marksmen have no area buff for allies or such, but i think nevertheless they have a pretty interesting role in group fights. Coordination with other marksmen proves to be a very effective way to terminate targets fast.

[fluffy_muffin]

Originally Posted by Miraculix

- Slow down group using Lightning arrow
- Buff up ranged damage (any damaged received from >4m distance) for 1 target with DS.
- Tank by buffing up with Strategic Position, Spell elude and acrobatic
- Reduce armor for 1 target using SS
- Freeze
- Dizzy
- Confuse
- Ambush
- Caltrops

Seeking strike lvl1 + break apart = - 30 constitution :>
and marks + warlock can kill conj with steel skin much easier than others

[Angelwinged_Devil]

the role has been mentioned pretty much by other players, however they are not tankers and shouldn't be able to do so.

[mann2411]

actually i think its a little unfair that while all the other classes are giving speed, protection, scanning, buffing, manaring etc a marksman can kind of just be sitting there eating up all the auras. But actually i dont think they can be substituted, i mean no class is essential for anything hunters arent essential for hunting we just make it almost certain that we'll find someone. I've seen a warlock and barb hunt it works but it you just might not get anyone. no class is essential for capturing forts and while marksman may not be useful in so many ways as a conjurer they do come in handy. i think twice as many enemies would have gotten away from me if it wasn't for a marksman with his freezing arrow.

[CumeriTarenes]

I never asked for more weapons or whatever, or claimed marksman are too weak, just to clarify this. And yes signatus, classes are having more purposes than I told, but i wanted to keep it short.

But my question is:

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

I mean, there is no class that can be substituted by other classes at all. But marksman...they can be substituted quite easy by other classes.
For this my question, what is the uniqe ability that makes a marksman to a marksman.

You mentioned death sentence, as I already did.
I get it that a marksman is more an allrounder than every other class, he has no special purposes, for that he can be substituted more easy than other classes.

Imagine the following situation. 6 people, one from each class are going hunting. The hunter tracks a group of 6 people, the barb gives speed to reach the enemies and gives a damage bonus before the fight, the knight casts auras to protect the group, the warlock casts terror, and as soon as enemies stay up MoD and the conju heals and gives mana.
And the marksman? He is just dealing the damage. Someone said he can slow down, a hunter can too. The marksman can ambush escaping enemies, the hunter too, the marksman can freeze escaping enemies, the warlock can too, the hunter can confuse conju, the hunter can too.
A marks is only unique in dealing damage very fast in much range. A warlock has not that much range and spells are having casting time. But, actually it is not that much range, or not that much daamge, because death sentence has a range of 25. So the marksman has to come close too. And at range 25, a warlock can deal about the same damage than a marksman.

Someone said marks are having most areas, wrong, warlocks have more.

Others are saying marksman are that much overpowered. but it seems they forgot that marks have no way to help the group directly, all they can do is dealing damage. And this can other classes too.
When I play my marksman in war I often play the role of a sniper, I try to stay at the flank of enemies and try to kill weak or important targets. Of course it is more effective if I coordinate with other marksman, but hunters that coordinate camo + rep shoot or warlocks that coordinate terror are more effective as well.
After all I get a marks is an alllrounder with major purpose to snipe down weak/important targets. They can do so due to high range and damage dealing power.

Even if I agree not in all points with Miraculix I understand from his post that he, as he is a marksman, feels the same than me. Often I feel a bit useless when playing my marks...because other classes can do my job as well. But that you can only understand when you play a marksman I guess. Maybe even other classes feel the same way, I don't know.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

[..]

I think a marksman is made for taking down single targets really fast from range which is why they are reffered to as snipers

[Anpu]

Yea I miss that part of having better spells for contributing to party (as buffing them).
I read Gigo's post about giving party % of higher range and I dont like it. Imagine another marksman in party with range 30 bow, maxed foresight and plus some % of my buff? I can already imagine all those topics....
Anyway, I was thinking about this:
Spell Specialist (in long bow tree) can might be that "area" team support spell? It doesnt give big boost, but it might help and increase interest of marksmen using it. I believe that idea of ngd when they created marksman, was to be guardian of forts, use range and dmg to try drive fort invaders back. And if thats true, then they must work in party or with many players around (while defending fort for example). And they can only so far help their party with "indirect" spells like area on enemies, no buff for allies.
Specialist wont be big change nor in dmg nor in balance. It might even attract ppl to use it (its common spell with hunters, so in hunting party would mean great bonus). Just to remember of that spell:
Damage bonus: 2%(lvl 1), 4% (lvl 2), 6% (lvl 3), 8%(lvl 4), 10% (lvl 5). IMO, its not A LOT of dmg bonus, but fair and enough. I find this spell more useable as area or party spell than again solo for myself.

[Domino_]

Well, marksmen job is that he can stop enemy on huge range especially with his passive range + parabolic shot and then freeze.
And most of spells has no casting time and 0 range !! That is very useful.

But the dizzy spell should be improved, burst of wind is really joke !

[mann2411]

well i think what cumeri is saying is that marksman ARE useful but they aren't needed for anything because they can be replaced by other peoples spells.

i like the idea anpu but i think ngd purposefully made marksman the way they did in a lone ranger type of style

[_dracus_]

Originally Posted by Cumeri

Others are saying marksman are that much overpowered. but it seems they forgot that marks have no way to help the group directly, all they can do is dealing damage.

I Strongly disagree with that. Lightening arrows can slow down ennemies charging your group. So you may help escaping, or overrun a group (The spell looks better than Caltrip because it also deals dmg).

Like hunters you can ambush warrior coming to your mage and that is really helping the group to protect conjuror. I try to do so during battle because I'm not so good for dealing dmg.

As a hunter, I really like the tricks tree. It's a common tree between our two sub classes, So you can also use it. I have the impression to be more useful using thoses spell than using a pet during the huge battles (at least 10 vs 10).

Originally Posted by Anpu

Spell Specialist (in long bow tree) can might be that "area" team support spell? It doesnt give big boost, but it might help and increase interest of marksmen using it. I believe that idea of ngd when they created marksman, was to be guardian of forts, use range and dmg to try drive fort invaders back. And if thats true, then they must work in party or with many players around (while defending fort for example). And they can only so far help their party with "indirect" spells like area on enemies, no buff for allies.
Specialist wont be big change nor in dmg nor in balance. It might even attract ppl to use it (its common spell with hunters, so in hunting party would mean great bonus). Just to remember of that spell:
Damage bonus: 2%(lvl 1), 4% (lvl 2), 6% (lvl 3), 8%(lvl 4), 10% (lvl 5). IMO, its not A LOT of dmg bonus, but fair and enough. I find this spell more useable as area or party spell than again solo for myself.

Now, Anpu I like your suggestion. But it might help the realm with most archers in fort war. If I understood clearly your suggestion you can stack all the bonus ?.