Advice from programmers to assist in learning. - Page 2

Hellman2 · 08-06-2008, 06:52 AM

I think it depends somehow what you want to do later on.
If you start with C you may learn some basics but totally miss the object oriented thinking.
But it will be easier to learn in the beginning.

C++ (never learned it) is using the structures of C and a lot more that is object oriented.

But I personally would restart again with Java.

If you learned one or two programming languages, its normally very easy to understand others and program in them - thats because the syntax may vary but the programming concepts are somehow the same.

And as Magnet said... stay away from GUI Toolkits in the beginning. At least dont use them for GUI design until you understand the mechanisms behind it and what the tool is generating for you.

Rising-Phoenix · 08-07-2008, 07:22 AM

My teacher informed me today that next year instead of learning a language such as delphi he would try and get us to do C++ as that is what we would be learning in UNI. So I guess to get a head start I will start on C++. I think I need a compiler to start with the coding. Does anyone know any good ones? Whether they cost or not does not bother me.

magnet · 08-07-2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising-Phoenix

My teacher informed me today that next year instead of learning a language such as delphi he would try and get us to do C++ as that is what we would be learning in UNI. So I guess to get a head start I will start on C++. I think I need a compiler to start with the coding. Does anyone know any good ones? Whether they cost or not does not bother me.

If you plan on learning programming, download Ubuntu, get build-essentials and g++ as a C++ compiler.

But seriously, there are many unis on Earth and fortunately all don't start with C++. At school, I started learning with C++ (I had past experience with Delphi, PHP 2 FI, Perl and C), but C++ is an antiquated and badly designed language where the compiler allows faulty static code to be compiled with no warning.

If I were to start with Object-Oriented programming, I would take Python or Java. Python is more straightforward and will allow you to think more on the problem rather than the language specifics. I personally prefer functional languages so these are not the languages I use daily (these times I mostly use Scala).

If you know either of them, it will be easy to pick C or C++ later on. When you know one imperative language you know them all anyway (and the OO layer is mostly sugar syntax).

Whether you follow my advice and start with Python or Java, or go with C or C++, the logical path for anyone wishing to learn programming is to get a GNU/Linux distribution with a package manager. All the tools, including compilers, will be available free for charge and free as in Freedom, and you get the bonus of having the source code for all your operating system and software (which is a real plus if you want to see how your favorite programs were made).

Good luck

ArcticWolf · 08-07-2008, 07:39 PM

Personally, I'd give lisp and haskell a chance. Sooner or later I'll have to use both of them in the University.

Java and Python are both a must-have in my Uni, so I feel lucky. :P

Rising-Phoenix · 08-08-2008, 08:36 AM

I might just give python a try. I have looked around and it seems to be a lot of peoples favourite.

Angelwinged_Devil · 08-08-2008, 09:01 AM

It depends on what you want to program, but it takes time to learn and to "catch" it.

If you want low system requirements on your applications C is good, same if you want to program microcontrollers or pics.

Large programs will make C++ save some of your time.

Although I don't know too much about them though. Go read XD (wikipedia)

Rising-Phoenix · 08-08-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelwinged_Devil

It depends on what you want to program, but it takes time to learn and to "catch" it.

If you want low system requirements on your applications C is good, same if you want to program microcontrollers or pics.

Large programs will make C++ save some of your time.

Although I don't know too much about them though. Go read XD (wikipedia)

:O That foul beast on the internet?? Wikipedia = evil in my books

tak · 08-08-2008, 12:26 PM

Honestly any language will do for learning. The more important thing is to try things out and practice practice practice practice.

Did i mention you need to practice?

Don't read books, don't read (too many) tutorials, just go right in and try stuff out. You will never learn programming otherwise.

Eli2 · 08-08-2008, 01:11 PM

I personally would not start with c++ or c because in 90% of your coding needs its unnecessary,
e.g. i can make stuff work in c# about 5 times faster than in c++(if you need to access the serial port just use the System.IO.Ports.SerialPort class).
I only use c++ if there is some sort of time critical thing going on, like real time video processing(computer vision ftw) and if you have programmed something in C# that needs more speed you can easily port it over to C++.
C# is 70% like Java but the rest is just better ^^.
If you want to produce results fast and be able to keep up with new developments you should think in black boxes.
You don't have to know what the toolkit/lib is actually doing as long as it does what it says in the manual.
Do not reinvent the wheel if you need to sort a list a good framework should be able to do that for you, there is no need to implement it yourself.

But don't take these tips as doctrine, i have never had any programming lessons or anyone to show me the "right way"(tm), just over 10 years experience.

Comp · 08-08-2008, 04:39 PM

First ask yourself what you would like to do when you complete schooling. Just saying "I want to write software" isn't going to cut it. Your answer will dictate what you should learn first.

Once you learn any language, learning others will come easy but you need to make sure you have a decent mastery of the language used in whatever you wish to do when school completes.

Let me give you an example of statistics from the USA.

If you do a search on monster.com you'll find that currently nation wide there are about 1000 jobs that use python, perl and the like. There are over 5000 jobs posted that use C or C++, over 5000 jobs that use Java, and over 5000 jobs that require knowledge of Linux platforms.

Not sure what country you are from; however, I would concentrate of the fundementals of C/C++ on a *NIX platform. Then pick up other languages on your own. Truly using C/C++ can be complicated so having an instructor available is EXTREMELY useful. Other languages like python, perl, ruby, etc are a walk in the park.

I do this professionally and I spend alot of time as a professor for software applications and programming. Look at what the market needs and hone your skills accordingly. Otherwise, you'll be an out of work hack....plain and simple.

View Poll Results: What language is better?
C	9	64.29%
C++	5	35.71%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

08-06-2008, 06:52 AM	#11
Hellman2 Pledge Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 38	I think it depends somehow what you want to do later on. If you start with C you may learn some basics but totally miss the object oriented thinking. But it will be easier to learn in the beginning. C++ (never learned it) is using the structures of C and a lot more that is object oriented. But I personally would restart again with Java. If you learned one or two programming languages, its normally very easy to understand others and program in them - thats because the syntax may vary but the programming concepts are somehow the same. And as Magnet said... stay away from GUI Toolkits in the beginning. At least dont use them for GUI design until you understand the mechanisms behind it and what the tool is generating for you. __________________ Hellman Two - Conjuror/Supporter (RA - Lvl 47 forever?!?) ~~~ VALHALLA ~~~ Fear my buffs

08-07-2008, 07:22 AM	#12
Rising-Phoenix Pledge Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1	My teacher informed me today that next year instead of learning a language such as delphi he would try and get us to do C++ as that is what we would be learning in UNI. So I guess to get a head start I will start on C++. I think I need a compiler to start with the coding. Does anyone know any good ones? Whether they cost or not does not bother me. Last edited by Rising-Phoenix; 08-07-2008 at 07:58 AM.

08-07-2008, 07:39 PM	#14
ArcticWolf Duke Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 0x00CAFE Posts: 3,366	Personally, I'd give lisp and haskell a chance. Sooner or later I'll have to use both of them in the University. Java and Python are both a must-have in my Uni, so I feel lucky. :P __________________ I don't have a solution, but I admire the problem.

08-08-2008, 01:11 PM	#19
Eli2 Apprentice Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 73	I personally would not start with c++ or c because in 90% of your coding needs its unnecessary, e.g. i can make stuff work in c# about 5 times faster than in c++(if you need to access the serial port just use the System.IO.Ports.SerialPort class). I only use c++ if there is some sort of time critical thing going on, like real time video processing(computer vision ftw) and if you have programmed something in C# that needs more speed you can easily port it over to C++. C# is 70% like Java but the rest is just better ^^. If you want to produce results fast and be able to keep up with new developments you should think in black boxes. You don't have to know what the toolkit/lib is actually doing as long as it does what it says in the manual. Do not reinvent the wheel if you need to sort a list a good framework should be able to do that for you, there is no need to implement it yourself. But don't take these tips as doctrine, i have never had any programming lessons or anyone to show me the "right way"(tm), just over 10 years experience. __________________ Regnum: It's Highly Addictive!

08-08-2008, 08:36 AM	#15
Rising-Phoenix Pledge Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1	I might just give python a try. I have looked around and it seems to be a lot of peoples favourite.

08-08-2008, 09:01 AM	#16
Angelwinged_Devil Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Under your skin Posts: 1337 Posts: 2,490	It depends on what you want to program, but it takes time to learn and to "catch" it. If you want low system requirements on your applications C is good, same if you want to program microcontrollers or pics. Large programs will make C++ save some of your time. Although I don't know too much about them though. Go read XD (wikipedia)

08-08-2008, 12:26 PM	#18
tak Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 309	Honestly any language will do for learning. The more important thing is to try things out and practice practice practice practice. Did i mention you need to practice? Don't read books, don't read (too many) tutorials, just go right in and try stuff out. You will never learn programming otherwise.

08-08-2008, 04:39 PM	#20
Comp Count Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Jippy's Mom's House Posts: 1,286	First ask yourself what you would like to do when you complete schooling. Just saying "I want to write software" isn't going to cut it. Your answer will dictate what you should learn first. Once you learn any language, learning others will come easy but you need to make sure you have a decent mastery of the language used in whatever you wish to do when school completes. Let me give you an example of statistics from the USA. If you do a search on monster.com you'll find that currently nation wide there are about 1000 jobs that use python, perl and the like. There are over 5000 jobs posted that use C or C++, over 5000 jobs that use Java, and over 5000 jobs that require knowledge of Linux platforms. Not sure what country you are from; however, I would concentrate of the fundementals of C/C++ on a NIX platform. Then pick up other languages on your own. Truly using C/C++ can be complicated so having an instructor available is EXTREMELY useful. Other languages like python, perl, ruby, etc are a walk in the park. I do this professionally and I spend alot of time as a professor for software applications and programming. Look at what the market needs and hone your skills accordingly. Otherwise, you'll be an out of work hack....plain and simple. __________________ Compost (60 Hunter) Alsius* Compoundious (Dead and gone...)