R.I.P. Warlocks

[Nightchill]

you people don't know what topic you've started. expect awd to start a real big rant here when he gets online.

and anyway, like i said, only classes warlock can't really measure up to are knights and marx, because of the insane blocks/evades. so i'm not really feeling you guys (no homo) on this topic.

@katiechan, oh yeah, balance, i can't wait for next update to see what they got for us

-NightC.

[_dracus_]

Originally Posted by opt1k

@katiechan, oh yeah, balance, i can't wait for next update to see what they got for us

-NightC.

I do think next update will be very "interesting for hunters" if NGD tries to balance out archers class. I mean we will have to learn new ways that might suit better the role of our class/subclass (range shooting for marks, and stalking for hunters).

[Vroek]

lol @ last update 'hot fix'.
Well... its going to be 'fun' to exploit this feature that Megrim called 'unwanted' over a year ago.

Even if this is not the worst issue for Warlocks, they deserve better than that NGD.

[Sayyadin]

Talking just about PvP, which this game is not about because it is mainly RvR and all classes are based and balanced on working together in a team.
I highly disagree in one of your facts (also the others are also very doubtful). A "normal" barbarian has no chance up to just a very small chance against a skilled mage (no matter if it is a warlock or conjurer). It is even possible to do it without losing life or with just loosing a single bit.
When both are skilled the chance is more equal I would say depends on the skill of the players, but I think the mage has still a higher chance to kill the barbarian.

[Cool_is_i]

*cough*wheres the part showing how conjus can beat locks?

Serious now
Yes locks are lacking in all realms, and this needs a fix.

[_dracus_]

Originally Posted by Sayyadin

Talking just about PvP, which this game is not about because it is mainly RvR and all classes are based and balanced on working together in a team.
I highly disagree in one of your facts (also the others are also very doubtful). A "normal" barbarian has no chance up to just a very small chance against a skilled mage (no matter if it is a warlock or conjurer). It is even possible to do it without losing life or with just loosing a single bit.
When both are skilled the chance is more equal I would say depends on the skill of the players, but I think the mage has still a higher chance to kill the barbarian.

When mind push doesn't get cancel by position bug I do agree ^^. However push get lots more cancel thoses days than before.

[Sayyadin]

Originally Posted by gph

When mind push doesn't get cancel by position bug I do agree ^^. However push get lots more cancel thoses days than before.

There are additional other skills that are useful and also should handle situation when the mind push doesn't work (or the other way around). There are quite some skills you can use as mage to stop a non blocking non evading enemy from hitting you (besides dizziness, and the other of the more cummon used skills that are useless against "unstopppable madness").

[Aries202]

Since all of you are saying this isnt all about PvP, lets take it to RvR.

A warlock's normal war set up would be...Mental 17, Mana 15, Necro 19, Arcania 19, Element 17. Yes there are more, but this set up is used a lot for war, just because its good all around. *you've casted terror" evaded/blocked. *death sentence-lethal striker, ethereal arrow* dead. Mod is a death trap now, just because half of the people are under DI, and it atracts everyone to you. One false move up on the line, will get you killed in an instant. When you cast terror to a group of 20 or so, and it only lands on one its really crap.

Of crouse you'll say get more concentration/int, har har. Wouldnt matter, knight's auras make people block as much as they do. Naso, your suggested set up is good, but for pvp only, a warlock running around in war with SM set up, is wishing to be dead. I never find barbs that challenging though, a mind push is all you need. A knight, well back when they didnt block so much, it was always a fun, long fight. Now its just a block block, knock, MS, Sc, cast beetle, ops blocked, ripost.and yeah you get the point.

The only glory we get is when our terror's end up hitting more then 5 people. Warlocks are supposed to be the area controlling mages, now we just stay behind, afraid of being knocked down.

[Nekudotayim]

Originally Posted by El_Naso

Fist, use mental, a whole damn lot of it. Have the mastery at lvl 17 and get a fell of every power, they are some of the best control spells aviable. Mental push is specially useful at any lvl, and at 5 it´s cooldown equals it´s duration. It can nail a warrior to the ground and render him useless, and it bypasses unstoppable madness, just like insect plague. Splinter wall may look like a weak and useless spell, especially for a high damaging warlock, but it gets through sow. Time master is probably one of the best, allows to freeze anything arround you for a full 15 seconds, including those annoying people that like to cancel your spells. This spell doesen´t let you attack your target, but it allows you to recharge, reposition and retaliate. Silence and will domain are obvious, real livesavers even at lvl 1, and a pain for your enemy at lvl 5. Do not be fooled, this is not just a mage mastery, it´s one of your main masteries, containing the core of your control spells.

Phew. Now a few random other spells: laziness cuts your enemies damage bonus in half, that means you weaken every buff your enemy has and (I asume) also the damage bonus in some skills like lethal attack and south cross (but I didn´t have the chance to test it and nobody uses it, to boot. In theory, it´s an awesome spell). Mod. Use it damnit, some locks claim it´s overpowered in pvp since it leaves your enemy with just normal hits. Pfft, I say use it, makes up for sow, unstoppable madness, south cross, confuse and every other "ups I´m dead" spell. Sadictic servants will slowly drain mana and add it to your pool, combined with mana borrow and mana burn, you can drain anybody dry in no time. Corrupt blood, soulkeeper and summon lightning can be difficult to fit together in any setup, but together they render any warrior useless. Freeze, just like time master, gains you time... Can´t think of anything else.

Yes, I do agree that those spells can save your life but you cannot skill all of these spells above all because you will need the points for much more important skills. However, MOD will not protect you from unstoppable madness as good as you may wish.

Originally Posted by El_Naso

Now all these spells are neat but here´s what I think is the problem: block and evasion. What are all these spells worth if you can´t even land one? You can´t rely on any spell these days because the chance of it getting evaded / resisted / blocked is outrageously high. I think that the change must be done to the warlock, make his concentration influence the spell focus a hell lot more. Make it so that they can get 1 out of 4 spells trough sow for example, so that they can realy rely on them. It´s nothing too hard I guess, just changing a little number.

I do agree 200% on this. I've got +17 Concentration bonus on my items in total but its influence seems to be zero.

Originally Posted by DjupaTanken

sometimes it's just feels like it would have been a lot more fun and interesting if your survival really could depend on your own judgment and knowledge about your skills, instead of instantly dying because you can't rely upon vital skills (such as mind push and vamp).

Well said. That's what it should be about. Player versus player and not luck versus luck.

Originally Posted by gph

I agree with you on the general lines I just want to pin point one thing that isn't exact. Unstoppable madness at level 1 isn't 90 resist to everything. It's 70% (+5% per level and duration increase) then and it doesn't prevent from beetle swarm or mind push. However I agree that 70% on level 1 is a bit too much. I'd see something like 50%, 60%, 70%, 80% , 90% depending on level could be good.

Oh, I am sorry. I have been using the description of unstoppable madness of the skill-trainer on the regnum-zg website. It seems to be wrong there.

Originally Posted by gph

Second point barbarian normal hits too get quite hight are done with very slow weapon which I believe to be around or close to 4s between each hit. So if you do the math it's not THAT unballenced compared to warlock spells (that also have range).

I have to disagree on this one. A friend of mine is able to cause 900-1000 normal damage every 1.5s - 2s using +damage buffs. He only needs to hit a mage 3 times and maybe use south cross etc. Believe me, he kinda owns the arena because noone is able to get him down that fast more often than not. Unstoppable madness works very well.

Originally Posted by Cool_is_i

*cough*wheres the part showing how conjus can beat locks?

Well, there are good ways for conjurers to defeat a warlock, but I am basically talking about PvP situations while doing RvR and I doubt, you will find a conjurer skilled like that in RvR battles. :-)
Speaking of that... all the classes I mentioned are able to act like described using their usual RvR setup.

[aice2]

Not only locks are too easy... knights are going to get easier and easier... I play on Muspell sometimes (44 Barbarian there) and I hit the most knights with 2k+ SCs with caution! sorry NGD, but 200-500 dmg are not enough to make this problem outta the world

this is why i made a marksman, because theyre strong and do 1k+ dmg on knights too

so NGD pls do something, if you want an archer/mage game then do it, but now its going to be so