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Old 02-27-2010, 12:20 PM   #11
Dupa_z_Zasady
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Nice. Comrades Stalin and Lenin would be proud of you.
I really do think that we do not need political threads on this forum, even in The Inn section
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Old 02-27-2010, 12:32 PM   #12
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Every single revolution which is 'for the people' we see again and again that there are a few leading figures who want the power or attention and despite the good intentions of the uprising in most cases it ends in a dictatorship. Examples are the English civil war, the Russian revolution, the revolution at Cuba and so on.
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Old 02-27-2010, 02:19 PM   #13
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Hmmm, not every single revolution, take a look at the Carnation Revolution:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnation_Revolution
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Old 02-27-2010, 04:42 PM   #14
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Every single revolution which is 'for the people' we see again and again that there are a few leading figures who want the power or attention and despite the good intentions of the uprising in most cases it ends in a dictatorship. Examples are the English civil war, the Russian revolution, the revolution at Cuba and so on.
Does it mean that people should give up? Does it mean we should live a spineless existence under the yoke of capitalist oppression? Aren't we obligated to our future generations to make the world a better place? Man wouldn't have been in the internet age had he given up his quest to control fire. He failed a lot but he kept trying till he succeeded. This quality called perseverance has defined mankind through out our evolution.

Let me tell a story. As a calf, a young bull is restrained by a very thin rope. It tries to break free but fails. But when it grows up it has the power to uproot the pole to which it is tied. But it doesn't try and thats how man domesticated the powerful bull. He fed it from his hands, it lost the confidence it could get food for itself. People are just domesticated now. Americans have grown mellow, insecure, hand-fed domesticated animals of the corporations. Thats why you dont see an american revolution nor will you in some time to come.

As long as the corporations can maintain their charade, this will continue. But when external debt gets out of control and inflation shoots sky high and the people are out on the streets hungry the revolution will begin. Blood will be shed. Remember french revolution? Hunger is what drives revolutions. Man, alas, is just an animal. Unless his wherewithals dry up and he is pushed to the corner he wont rise up. But that time will definitely come for America. So comrades out there, just hold on till then. We shall prevail !
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Old 02-27-2010, 04:52 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Dupa_z_Zasady View Post
Nice. Comrades Stalin and Lenin would be proud of you.
I really do think that we do not need political threads on this forum, even in The Inn section
I think its the best thread I've yet seen on the forums.
+1 Vy for starting it (for what its worth I lean pretty far to the left also)
I dont think of it as a political thread even, its a concern for his fellow
beings; no matter their political affiliation.

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To start with, there are two different groups, we can get into more detail, but at the first level of approximation, there's two targets for propaganda. One is what's sometimes called the political class. There's maybe twenty percent of the population which is relatively educated, more or less articulate, plays some kind of role in decision-making. They're supposed to sort of participate in social life -- either as managers, or cultural managers like teachers and writers and so on. They're supposed to vote, they're supposed to play some role in the way economic and political and cultural life goes on. Now their consent is crucial. So that's one group that has to be deeply indoctrinated. Then there's maybe eighty percent of the population whose main function is to follow orders and not think, and not to pay attention to anything -- and they're the ones who usually pay the costs. ~ Noam Chomsky
To expand on this I think what Chomsky says is a truism and if the 80ish percent ever wake up
thats when revolution happens.
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Old 02-27-2010, 05:07 PM   #16
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I think its the best thread I've yet seen on the forums.
+1 Vy for starting it (for what its worth I lean pretty far to the left also)
I dont think of it as a political thread even, its a concern for his fellow
beings; no matter their political affiliation.
+1 G. The terms 'communists' 'comrades' have been politicized. The issue in itself is a human rights problem. So you just search and replace the term 'communism' with 'human right activism' and 'comrades' with 'fellow human beings' the same people who vehemently oppose this thread would stand in queue to sign up... It just saddens me to see people who doesn't want to think and would just lap up all that's fed to them by the powers that be. :/ But as I said, hunger will overrule all that and make em see through all the bullshit
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Old 02-27-2010, 05:14 PM   #17
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People will by standard only do what's best for them or their loved ones. If that includes stealing from other people or denying other people access to certain resources they will handle that way. The idea of everybody being equal is a nice one, but because of the way people think, it will never work.

There's no good or bad in the world, only we and they.
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Old 02-27-2010, 05:22 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by DkySven View Post
People will by standard only do what's best for them or their loved ones. If that includes stealing from other people or denying other people access to certain resources they will handle that way. The idea of everybody being equal is a nice one, but because of the way people think, it will never work.

There's no good or bad in the world, only we and they.
Sadly evidenced by the opposition to universal healthcare taking place
right now in the United States.
Whats even sadder is; it doesn't have to be that way.
If the corporate entities that drive the "I got mine, F$%^ YOU" attitude
had the roles reversed with perhaps an urban youth or blue collar worker
they'd change their tune so fast we'd see if Hawking was correct about
lightspeed.
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Old 02-27-2010, 05:40 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by veluchami View Post
Blood will be shed. Remember french revolution? Hunger is what drives revolutions. Man, alas, is just an animal.
Oh, yes. Exploiting other people's weaknesses to amplify your so-called "Revolution". You're no better than "Do No Evil" Google and their discrete policy flip-flop on China, telemarketers, scammers and nonreligious modern Cult gatherings.

-------------------------------------------------
Edit: The aim of the French Revolution was to get rid of the single monarchy, who controlled everything.

Nowadays, corporations actively *compete* for our attention.

Making corporations and governments responsible for their dodgy activities is the key, in these modern times.
-------------------------------------------------

Quoting Registeted Democrat Prokofy Neva again:

Quote:
the proponents of these ideas basically have a temporary expediency agenda, and then a more radical agenda hidden underneath that, and at times, it isn't even so hidden.
Quote:
Communism [...]often resort to murder to get their way
Radical "optimism" (formally prayer) is akin to the 10th-13th century Crusades.

Last edited by Henri_Freundlich; 02-27-2010 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 02-27-2010, 06:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DkySven View Post
People will by standard only do what's best for them or their loved ones. If that includes stealing from other people or denying other people access to certain resources they will handle that way. The idea of everybody being equal is a nice one, but because of the way people think, it will never work.

There's no good or bad in the world, only we and they.
Dky,
That's not what the Revolution will be about. The Revolution will be about each worker emancipating himself and by doing so he will emancipate his brothers and sisters. Human being's self interest can be used to the benefit for all.

Quote:
Edit: The aim of the French Revolution was to get rid of the single monarchy, who controlled everything.
Henri,
You're absolutely right, but the French, and American revolutions were Bourgeoisie revolutions. The were started by the Bourgeoisie against the Monarch. These are the revolutions where the Capitalists emancipate themselves and the road to Communism starts. Without the Bourgeoisie revolutions, no Proletariat will be formed and without that class identity he will never realize his plight, and never be emancipated. Lucky for us that the path to Communism is an inevitable one. And the Capitalists have helped us by throwing the yoke of the monarch and they've setup the means of production, just waiting to be confiscated by the state.

To sum it up. Don't compare the French Revolution's barbarism and exploitation to a Proletarian Revolution. And, while there will be bloodshed, we are not the bourgeoisie.
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Last edited by Vythica; 02-27-2010 at 06:21 PM.
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