Per class population

[Seher]

Haha nice thread

Originally Posted by chilko

Hello everyone

Many of you requested this info.
Here you have a population distribution of active 40+ level characters in RA and Horus

Marksman: 11,31%
Knight: 13,52%
Warlock: 15,24%
Barbarian: 16,80%
Hunter: 21,14%
Conjurer: 21,99%

Huge amount of conjurers, but I guess just half of them is actually healing... And there might be many inactive characters, as many players want to have a conju, for supporting friends and stuff, but don't go to war, don't know... My conju was like that for quite a long time.

Originally Posted by chilko

this are my personal feelings (not NGD's)

Marksmans: Boring to play

Yeah! Mostly because of the "(ranged) normal hits issue"...

Originally Posted by chilko

Barbarian: OK (OP but whining)

Hehe yeah... Might just feel like that as a barbarian can pick someone and kill him, no matter what happens (except for beetles), but... that's OP, isn't it? ;P

I'm levelling a barbarian (or at least trying it), as I like the action and kamikaze style, most whiners just dislike dying, I guess...

Originally Posted by chilko

Hunter: Super OP and too versatile

Short bow should be hunter only, long bow marksman only, imo... You won't change very much here without huge conceptual changes.

And handling pets still needs vast improvements to make pets actually useful in fort wars...
Additionally: A pet is easy to control when the player is next to it, so the hunter should be at least a bit close-range. That would solve your "too many ranged classes" problem as well, but I'm afraid many hunters wouldn't like such a change :P
Making short bows hunter only would be a nice compromise, though.

Originally Posted by chilko

Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen)

Too versatile? Maybe, as they can deal damage as well.
But just focusing on healing... There are 4 useful trees, and 4 can be maxed on 50. Versatile? Good joke. (Ok, mental is useful, too, but still, that's 4 out of 5 then...)
To me it seems to be the best here to replace the damage dealing trees with something actually useful for healing - killing two birds with one stone.
Summons - quite easy to replace, some other healing and buffing stuff. Maybe Healing tree to heal, this new tree to prevent damage.

But staff mastery? Maybe staff mastery should become another mental tree, but close range, (+ bonuses to some things, better casting, faster casting, less cooldown, ...) and mental stays ranged only I mean, staff mastery is boring, seriously now, and far too easy. ;P

Oh, and (current) mental is enough for solo levelling, really. Just get rid of this summon stuff, it's just annoying :P


edit: Just realized... "many ways to regen", wtf?! Does this mean you'd rather cut down constant levelling for conjus instead of just making other classes rest less? :/
I really don't get why you still scare new players away by making them rest and wait for half of their playing time... :/ (And that's what prevents me from levelling a barb, by the way...)

[Comp]

I think the changes applied to Amun will make hunters more difficult to play and more fun to play. NGD does need to re-think the whole pet discipline though - there are still ways to make them just as OP as they are on Live - and this needs to be balanced.

[Miraculix]

I've played almost exclusively marksman and hunter, so please take my comments for the other 4 classes lightly.

Hunter: Very interesting class to play. With the upcoming balance update, I believe you are getting very close to balancing it in relation with the other classes. Has the upper hand in almost all 1v1 situations due to the element of surprise - and rightly so. This is the defining characteristic of the class, forget the ranger archetype nonsense imo. Rogue/assassin is what this class is all about, so focus on making that work in balance. Amun is on the right track right now I believe, good job.

Marksman: Marksmen can make difference by superior damage from range, but if you play that way, it's boring. My suggestion: Give marksmen what Terror is for warlocks. Marksmen need a spell that will define the class and almost make you want to play it for just that spell, that makes its mark in the battle - like terror is for warlocks. I think they need good area CC's and good area damages. They have enough, maybe even too many, single target spells.
For mana I think they are ok if you control yourself. They don't need a mana regeneration spell, they just need some help controlling themselves. It's hard to control your mana when you can have 5 different spells that do pretty much the same thing (ethereal, arcanna, serpent, lethal, etc etc - all single target damage spells). So when they pick a target, they can easily burn all their mana in 5 seconds. If they play with normal hits setup, they will burn their mana because of recharged arrows and TWO buffs for attack speed (rapid shot, hawks gaze) doing the same thing - single target damage. Maybe if they had to choose between that and some great area spells they would not have such a problem controlling their mana.

Conjurer - The healer class of the game getting the best summons/pets was my first WTF moment in RO, followed by conjurers having the highest DPS in the game (before SM got "nerfed"). The summon probably has to go as a tree altogether. Maybe replace it with a "support" summon, giving heals and/or mana or something.

Warlock - Too dependant on one spell - Terror. Take that away, half the locks will stop playing. Give it too much power, and it will destroy battles (as it does now). They need more things to do in the battlefield than be the ones that deliver the opener and then use everything they have to try and stay alive. 1v1 is another story, there they have a great advantage over most classes & situations.

Barbarians - I actually think this class is ok, from an archer's point of view.

Knights - This is probably THE most broken class in regnum. A nightmare to grind, and when you get to 50 you are "that guy" in war. Noone really knows what you do exactly that their barbs cannot do better, and the support you provide takes up space from conjurer support. More CC is definitely needed on the knight (single target CC that is)

Again, like I said, I play only archers. Please don't kill me for my comments

[Pakos]

Originally Posted by theotherhiveking

Here you have a population distribution of active 40+ level characters in RA and Horus

All of them.

rofl gonna hide now,
shouldnt write when i should be sleeping -.-

[Gideon_Slack]

My comments are solely directed at the Hunter as a stealth class. Every MMO has one, so its important Regnum has one, and that it is viable and not over-powered. To be viable, a stealth class must have both offensive and defensive stealth abilities.

Previously, speed was the defensive stealth ability. Since speed is being removed, NGD has to add a new defensive stealth ability, or else the Hunter as a stealth class will be crippled. People who play stealth classes in other MMO's will realize this if they try Regnum.

My suggestion: Add a short, insta-cast camo spell with a speed bonus at a low level in the Scouting tree.

It could look something like this:

• 0 cast time
• 10 second duration
• long cooldown
• large speed bonus: +30% or more
• cannot be broken by any "reveal camo" spell
• cannot attack until it wears off

This is generally how defensive stealth abilities work in other games: short spells that remove the caster quickly from the situation.

At the same time, the original camo should be moved farther up the Scouting tree, perhaps to Level 17. (Low level hunters could still use camo with the new camo spell, which obviously would work offensively too).

Speed was also part of the offensive stealth, so the old Camo should be modified to compensate for its loss. My suggestions here:

• Cooldown at level 5 = Duration (90 seconds). This would allow Scouting specialized Hunters to continue to conduct covert reconnaissance.
• Speed malus - should be reduced until it is 0% at level 5, in keeping with the Hunter's need to conduct covert reconnaissance.
• Can be broken by "reveal camo"
• Long cast time

Also in my opinion, the damage debuffs that are being added to the Scouting tree should be limited or removed, as they seem to undermine the tree's coherence.

[Arafails]

It's my considered opinion, after playing a barbarian almost exclusively for a long time before branching out into mage classes also, that while barbarians are remarkably overpowered once they reach a target, in ‘large’ scale battle the possibility of doing so is somewhat determined by the ranged players on the opposing side – to the point that with the exception of awesome gear and insanely specific and three quarters useless builds the OPness of the subclass is completely nullified and then over-killed. This is why we whine.
I think this will change drastically very soon. Very soon, everyone else will be whining again.

[Mr_Egg]

Originally Posted by chilko

Conjurer: 21,99%

this are my personal feelings (not NGD's)
...

Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen)

Bear in mind that most conjurers are only used at the bosses. I mean, you can be in the warzone 24/7, at every war, and still, when it's Vesper/Evendim time, there's suddenly conjs there that you've never seen before, because they're the alts of everyone else.
(EDIT: I'm talking Syrtis/Horus.... may be different elsewhere)

Yes, easy to grind (so most career grinders are conjs too), but in terms of support? Not so OP. High mana costs, heal cooldowns are a bit too high... even with ambitious (5) constantly on cd, not enough mana to support everyone (mostly because they all expect you to give them mana too).

See my post in the "We are not nerfing support conjurers" thread for the rest of what I'd say if I hadn't already said it

I'll copy this bit though, because I still stand by it:

Originally Posted by Mr_Egg

In terms of changes? Here's what I would suggest:

• Make the staff mastery magnification spells non-stackable (although then they would need to go up in increments, so fire does 5/10/15/20/25, ice does 7/14/21/28/35, lightning does 10/20/30/40/50), because this straight away reduces the maximum damage from normals.
• Switch mana communion with metabolic control in the mana tree and make it an area spell (instead of an aura), so say, mana cost goes up like 300/400/500/600/700, and everyone within radius 10 (maybe?) receives 100/150/200/250/300 mana. Numbers might need reworking, but they're only there as an example.
• Reduce the range of summons (zarkits) to 20
• Like Ise said, don't automatically put the conjurer into attack mode after every spell (small issue, but it is a bit weird)
• Increase range of heal ally to 25
• MORE EXPERIENCE FROM GRINDING AS A SUPPORT CONJURER! (maybe double the current amount)

From what I've seen though, maybe it's going in the right direction...

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by Arafails

Very soon, everyone else will be whining again.

Yes.

The key problem on all the kiting and dying in war is, from what i experienced, that you basically are helpless while approaching your target and since you got UM the only way to deal with you is to take you out fast.

Instead of giving Melee more options to dodge heavy fire or heavy cc they insanely changed the speed they have to get to the target while keeping their CC immunity up. I would have preferred a mix of this with a shorter UM but a new tool spell allowing to have impact on such situations.

Melee with CC immunity hitting on you while having more speed of course will produce frustration on the class that cannot do anything against it.


Im very very curious how this works out on war where we can support eachother.

[veluchami]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

Im very very curious how this works out on war where we can support eachother.

Playing barbarian is most fun when there is a good amount of warriors on either side. But by virtue the game design having 2/3 of all players ranged, warriors are suffering. Horus fights as a barb can get frustrating in forts.
Consider this scenario when you take a fort,
First, the rangers keep hitting each other from range for like 10minutes. If you step out you are mince meat. So you stay in waiting for the fight to come to the door.
But the opposing team decimates you rangers on wall before moving to the door for the kill. This means 2/3 of your team is dead even before you can start fighting. So when you step out to fight, the rest of the players from the opposing team have come back from save, and you are targeted. With lesser number of players you invariably loose the battles. Some of the rare good battles are when there is a GC and the door is down, and both the teams have equal number of players. This is when there is a lot of opportunity for both ranged and the warriors to play.

In case of attacking a fort, its the same case, you cant get near the wall unless the rangers on the wall are neutralized by your rangers. Which reduces your role as just a door basher. Result is, as a warrior the battle is decided even before you start fighting.

Speaking of which, just gave me an Idea. Ding !
Why dont NGD just remove the concept door bashing? Whenever a fort is captured you get a GC with open door. The GC has a decent HP and normal attacks, which can be upgraded to the current level GC with areas and higher hp. The GC cannot be just chipped at from range. You have to come close range to kill the GC.

This way, the warriors get to play right from the beginning of the fort capture. This also prevents the attacking team from leaving the fort after capture and go to the save to camp it. The attackers need more warriors to kill the GC. The defenders need more warriors to protect the GC and their own rangers/conjus from the defenders. Redesign the fort structure so that there is a pedestal in the center where the GC stands. The defending rangers stand on the parapet or on the pedestal with the GC to target the attackers. The attackers must coordinate and kill the defenders before being able to kill the GC. Just make the forts larger bigger than castles, in turn turning it into a huge PvP arena.
Basically envision the fort as a huge arena with an aztec temple (pedestal) at the center. The current towers are seriously messy and too small for group tactical battles.

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by veluchami

....

Yes veluchami, i experience the same on my barb.


I just fear the part of experiencing frustration has now partly shifted to archers as they have no way to counter a faster class with immunity to CC. I would have preferred a way that puts the balance into the abilities the classes have to counter eachother.

This has to be tested though, it might aswell end up that heavy slowdowns will be skilled evrywhere and barbs end up the same as where they been before in many matchups.

The core problem from my perspective, the lack of interaction abilities for melee while being kited, hasnt changed in any way by this updates. Instead ngd attempts to remove the so bad kiting. Thats a bad idea as kiting is a core theme in melee vs range design. It has to be balanced, not to be taken out.