knight feelings after update - Page 2

Pornstar · 09-22-2010, 03:43 PM

Im very confused with latest changes. Tried already 2-3 builds and i see myself pretty useless in war. With defencive stance you just being ignored as never before (no even like ao1 before). I find stars shield and shield wall kinda frustrating 10 sec duration no barb can even reach the enemies + anoher disadvantage ->increased range of archers so basically enemies stand about 5 m further. I m not very satisfied but that wasnt the point of my post.
I just wanted to get some tips for skilling and new combat strategies after this balance update from players who spent more hours than me making tests on amun. Thanks

Gawyn_Trakkand · 09-22-2010, 05:13 PM

i'm still also having a problem setting up a Knight though i know Knarb is no longer an option (offensive stance would be ok in short bursts but having it constantly is suicide) atm i am setup for full support knight i have full auras full suport skills and full non damaging cc's. This setup with another similar setup knight and a couple of good conjs can make a zerg invincible

its all about working in partnership and making sure you're not over-riding your fellow knight auras with your own.

Signatus · 09-22-2010, 05:14 PM

This knight overhaul was the best thing in years imho. And the most interesting thing is, I haven't changed my setup that much from the pre-update, but the way it works now is rather awesome.

For years knight was a class that relied in 1 power to achieve survivability, and either you had it or you were screwed! A couple years ago precise block + protector would give 3 block layers and you could, literally, walk against a zerg that way. Precise block alone would make you block everything at one point, and fail miserably on the other, success was dependent in what was saved and what went through. I remember having Vanguard on 13 and AoO being "yet another useless" pos 19 spell.

After that the block nerf, a barb with a lvl 10 shield would block as much as knight with a lvl 50 one. This might be an overstatement, truth be told I saw more straight blocks on barb pics then on my log... This was the age of AoO... or the age of getting 3 straight CCs and start running back because it was almost over.

Now Knights gameplay is the most interesting experience I ever had on this game. The fluidity and how different spells can be combined are amazing. Precise Block is a preciosity, timed in the right moment can send to cooldown some major enemy spells; AoO makes so much more sense now, instead of the silly nº 1 rushing buff it became a "tide of war" changer that can be easily chained with Off stance for increased dmg output; Def stance is amazing as well, finally the spell we asked to be able to make the back auras useful without being the archer's target dummy we were before.

And I haven't even tried everything yet!

On a minor note of concern, and time will tell if this is an issue, a knight on def stance should not be able to cast offens spells imho. The reason for this is that a knight can sustain his stance for undetermined time, he can even cast AoO to shrug off dmg even further, and still be able to cast disable limb, disabling and feint, 3 spells that combined can annihilate any other class (remember he can quit it at any given time).

doppelapfel · 09-22-2010, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Signatus

This knight overhaul was the best thing in years imho. And the most interesting thing is, I haven't changed my setup that much from the pre-update, but the way it works now is rather awesome.

For years knight was a class that relied in 1 power to achieve survivability, and either you had it or you were screwed! A couple years ago precise block + protector would give 3 block layers and you could, literally, walk against a zerg that way. Precise block alone would make you block everything at one point, and fail miserably on the other, success was dependent in what was saved and what went through. I remember having Vanguard on 13 and AoO being "yet another useless" pos 19 spell.

After that the block nerf, a barb with a lvl 10 shield would block as much as knight with a lvl 50 one. This might be an overstatement, truth be told I saw more straight blocks on barb pics then on my log... This was the age of AoO... or the age of getting 3 straight CCs and start running back because it was almost over.

Now Knights gameplay is the most interesting experience I ever had on this game. The fluidity and how different spells can be combined are amazing. Precise Block is a preciosity, timed in the right moment can send to cooldown some major enemy spells; AoO makes so much more sense now, instead of the silly nº 1 rushing buff it became a "tide of war" changer that can be easily chained with Off stance for increased dmg output; Def stance is amazing as well, finally the spell we asked to be able to make the back auras useful without being the archer's target dummy we were before.

And I haven't even tried everything yet!

On a minor note of concern, and time will tell if this is an issue, a knight on def stance should not be able to cast offens spells imho. The reason for this is that a knight can sustain his stance for undetermined time, he can even cast AoO to shrug off dmg even further, and still be able to cast disable limb, disabling and feint, 3 spells that combined can annihilate any other class (remember he can quit it at any given time).

I agree with you in everything beside the last comment about ds. I can have ds running the whole time dealing no dmg but supporting my realmmates, this is great, supporting includes stuff like making barbs able to hit runners with dl or saving others from attacks with feint imo.

bois · 09-22-2010, 07:07 PM

Yes I must agree that this is one of the best updates ever for knight. The variety of builds and the flexibility within them are excellent. NGD did a good job here. So far I have found a couple builds that look promising.

There is a lot of things any knight could work with in different combinations and get good results. This seems to be one of the bright spots to come out of the update. The only tiny thing I would say that needs a look at would be protect ally. It works reasonably well but a slight tweak in cast time or range may make this spell move from average to outstanding. I would prefer a little more range and leave the cast time. NGD, have a look see in a month's time.

Artec

Ulti19 · 09-22-2010, 08:57 PM

I am super impressed with the knight update and cannot believe how well they can tank now. The new defensive stance is a must for me, it reduces damage from every class but barbarian to nothing more than someone hitting my knight with a pillow. I kept ao1 just for barbs when they get close, it is also perfect for outfighting um since it is so short. I was against ao1 being 15seconds long but I completely change my opinion. With the new cd it is fine and perfect to use it after using pb to wait for ao1 cd along with feint and kick which i keep at 3. I don't use troll skin, never have and never see a point to having that much more hp. Precise block is by far the coolest spell imo. Though only 6 seconds with the 20 sec duration it gives so much defensive and counter abilites to the class. Deflecting Barrier and Shield Wall are both 5. Defensive support is at 4, with steadiness at 5 making it tough to knock at doors or 1 on 1. Protect ally is on 5. Though it would be nice if it was instacast or range it still seems wicked to me. Dispelling a conj who is confused makes my day lol. The ability to go from damage soaker to damage dealer is awesome.

I keep disabling on now since i have no attack spells. Disabling makes a huge difference, spent 3 hours today in arena and tons of time on amun and it is a keeper. I find it is better to simply use disabling and then attack with only normals, as normals cannot be resisted and can focus on timing pb and defense only. Have 4450 hp after this update with 100 cons. Spear is the best weapon imo, despite the crappy tree, for knight as it is pretty easy to kite someone in a fight and hit them 2 or 3 times when they only get you once. And overall I love the job they did with knights

Minorian · 09-22-2010, 09:06 PM

So far looking through the trees Im already starting to setup some builds, I really like the new spells.

Just one thing, whats the trick to knight grinding? I still haven't gotten it yet :S

Dannboy · 09-23-2010, 09:18 AM

Only complain I have to come with is...

Why the HELL can't Knights cast vanguards while in defensive stance.
Let's take Crash for example.
+100 Weapon Damage
- 40% Evade

There is No damage to be directly done here. The weapon damage itself would be about 20.
There is no direct damage to be done here like Forceful or Charge.

Except for that I wont complain much.

Pakos · 09-23-2010, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Need_More_Invasions

So far looking through the trees Im already starting to setup some builds, I really like the new spells.

Just one thing, whats the trick to knight grinding? I still haven't gotten it yet :S

i've tried yesterday full weapon tree with that new dmg skill (stance) and trolls, caution, and so on. Pretty nice dmg on challange mobs so i guess thats it :P

I'm also curious how that build would be working on wz, couldnt test it yet ;P

btw precise block description says stop on move, whne i cast it and run it dissappear, when i cast when im running should it be gone?

bois · 09-23-2010, 12:29 PM

The fact that crash does damage boost over a normal at all ,negates this spell under defensive stance.

However, it is an interesting and compelling thought. The damage is just magnified by 100% (negligible damage increase) and still provides the debuff which gives the knight even more flexibility. Some may argue that this will make knights even more overpowered as they become debuffing machines without needing any particular skill to switch defensive stance on and off. So you debuff the heck out of your opponent then take def stance off and finish them.
However, you can buff yourself under defensive stance to magnify your attack power and likewise debuff your enemy to get more damage in.

If it were applied we would then be able to use : Crash. crushing, mind squash, brain piercing, (lightning strike ?)

It is an interesting idea, considering the points are pretty scarce and you would be very challenged to skill several of these at one time and still maintain your defense/offense balance.

Right now Knight is the most flexible and fun class out there. Our long wait in the wings and painful grinding have paid dividends. Hopefully NGD can come up with ideas to make every class as flexible as they did with this.

I give you +1 for the excellent observation Dannboy.

Artec

09-22-2010, 05:14 PM	#13
Signatus Master Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Damn, I'm lost again!... but now I have a map, wiii! Posts: 389	This knight overhaul was the best thing in years imho. And the most interesting thing is, I haven't changed my setup that much from the pre-update, but the way it works now is rather awesome. For years knight was a class that relied in 1 power to achieve survivability, and either you had it or you were screwed! A couple years ago precise block + protector would give 3 block layers and you could, literally, walk against a zerg that way. Precise block alone would make you block everything at one point, and fail miserably on the other, success was dependent in what was saved and what went through. I remember having Vanguard on 13 and AoO being "yet another useless" pos 19 spell. After that the block nerf, a barb with a lvl 10 shield would block as much as knight with a lvl 50 one. This might be an overstatement, truth be told I saw more straight blocks on barb pics then on my log... This was the age of AoO... or the age of getting 3 straight CCs and start running back because it was almost over. Now Knights gameplay is the most interesting experience I ever had on this game. The fluidity and how different spells can be combined are amazing. Precise Block is a preciosity, timed in the right moment can send to cooldown some major enemy spells; AoO makes so much more sense now, instead of the silly nº 1 rushing buff it became a "tide of war" changer that can be easily chained with Off stance for increased dmg output; Def stance is amazing as well, finally the spell we asked to be able to make the back auras useful without being the archer's target dummy we were before. And I haven't even tried everything yet! On a minor note of concern, and time will tell if this is an issue, a knight on def stance should not be able to cast offens spells imho. The reason for this is that a knight can sustain his stance for undetermined time, he can even cast AoO to shrug off dmg even further, and still be able to cast disable limb, disabling and feint, 3 spells that combined can annihilate any other class (remember he can quit it at any given time). __________________ The sound of the Gion Shōja bells echoes the impermanence of all things; the color of the sāla flowers reveals the truth that the prosperous must decline. The proud do not endure, they are like a dream on a spring night; the mighty fall at last, they are as dust before the wind. -- Chapter 1.1 of The Tale of Heike, Helen Craig McCullough's translation

09-22-2010, 08:57 PM	#16
Ulti19 Master Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 450	I am super impressed with the knight update and cannot believe how well they can tank now. The new defensive stance is a must for me, it reduces damage from every class but barbarian to nothing more than someone hitting my knight with a pillow. I kept ao1 just for barbs when they get close, it is also perfect for outfighting um since it is so short. I was against ao1 being 15seconds long but I completely change my opinion. With the new cd it is fine and perfect to use it after using pb to wait for ao1 cd along with feint and kick which i keep at 3. I don't use troll skin, never have and never see a point to having that much more hp. Precise block is by far the coolest spell imo. Though only 6 seconds with the 20 sec duration it gives so much defensive and counter abilites to the class. Deflecting Barrier and Shield Wall are both 5. Defensive support is at 4, with steadiness at 5 making it tough to knock at doors or 1 on 1. Protect ally is on 5. Though it would be nice if it was instacast or range it still seems wicked to me. Dispelling a conj who is confused makes my day lol. The ability to go from damage soaker to damage dealer is awesome. I keep disabling on now since i have no attack spells. Disabling makes a huge difference, spent 3 hours today in arena and tons of time on amun and it is a keeper. I find it is better to simply use disabling and then attack with only normals, as normals cannot be resisted and can focus on timing pb and defense only. Have 4450 hp after this update with 100 cons. Spear is the best weapon imo, despite the crappy tree, for knight as it is pretty easy to kite someone in a fight and hit them 2 or 3 times when they only get you once. And overall I love the job they did with knights __________________

09-23-2010, 09:18 AM	#18
Dannboy Initiate Join Date: May 2008 Location: With DB on the top of Mount Doom were Sauron lives. Posts: 206	Only complain I have to come with is... Why the HELL can't Knights cast vanguards while in defensive stance. Let's take Crash for example. +100 Weapon Damage - 40% Evade There is No damage to be directly done here. The weapon damage itself would be about 20. There is no direct damage to be done here like Forceful or Charge. Except for that I wont complain much. __________________ Dannboy, Horus Knight lv 50 Ignis After two years The Cake Is A Lie _But there's no sense crying over every mistake. We just keep on trying till we run out of cake.

09-22-2010, 03:43 PM	#11
Pornstar Apprentice Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 76	Im very confused with latest changes. Tried already 2-3 builds and i see myself pretty useless in war. With defencive stance you just being ignored as never before (no even like ao1 before). I find stars shield and shield wall kinda frustrating 10 sec duration no barb can even reach the enemies + anoher disadvantage ->increased range of archers so basically enemies stand about 5 m further. I m not very satisfied but that wasnt the point of my post. I just wanted to get some tips for skilling and new combat strategies after this balance update from players who spent more hours than me making tests on amun. Thanks

09-22-2010, 05:13 PM	#12
Gawyn_Trakkand Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Cheshire, England Posts: 219	i'm still also having a problem setting up a Knight though i know Knarb is no longer an option (offensive stance would be ok in short bursts but having it constantly is suicide) atm i am setup for full support knight i have full auras full suport skills and full non damaging cc's. This setup with another similar setup knight and a couple of good conjs can make a zerg invincible its all about working in partnership and making sure you're not over-riding your fellow knight auras with your own.

09-22-2010, 07:07 PM	#15
bois Count Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trinidad and Tobago Posts: 1,194	Yes I must agree that this is one of the best updates ever for knight. The variety of builds and the flexibility within them are excellent. NGD did a good job here. So far I have found a couple builds that look promising. There is a lot of things any knight could work with in different combinations and get good results. This seems to be one of the bright spots to come out of the update. The only tiny thing I would say that needs a look at would be protect ally. It works reasonably well but a slight tweak in cast time or range may make this spell move from average to outstanding. I would prefer a little more range and leave the cast time. NGD, have a look see in a month's time. Artec

09-22-2010, 09:06 PM	#17
Minorian Master Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Peterborough ON Posts: 597	So far looking through the trees Im already starting to setup some builds, I really like the new spells. Just one thing, whats the trick to knight grinding? I still haven't gotten it yet :S

09-23-2010, 12:29 PM	#20
bois Count Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trinidad and Tobago Posts: 1,194	The fact that crash does damage boost over a normal at all ,negates this spell under defensive stance. However, it is an interesting and compelling thought. The damage is just magnified by 100% (negligible damage increase) and still provides the debuff which gives the knight even more flexibility. Some may argue that this will make knights even more overpowered as they become debuffing machines without needing any particular skill to switch defensive stance on and off. So you debuff the heck out of your opponent then take def stance off and finish them. However, you can buff yourself under defensive stance to magnify your attack power and likewise debuff your enemy to get more damage in. If it were applied we would then be able to use : Crash. crushing, mind squash, brain piercing, (lightning strike ?) It is an interesting idea, considering the points are pretty scarce and you would be very challenged to skill several of these at one time and still maintain your defense/offense balance. Right now Knight is the most flexible and fun class out there. Our long wait in the wings and painful grinding have paid dividends. Hopefully NGD can come up with ideas to make every class as flexible as they did with this. I give you +1 for the excellent observation Dannboy. Artec