Thanks for making conjurer old man

[isgandarli]

Try using Stunning Fist This spell needs to be landed instantly, but even having 5% CS paulds on me, it's very hard to cast it on enemy that moves away from you

P.S. Not talking about 10m ranged Ambush spell even. It's more epic )))

[Vaylos]

Don't jump on NGD too hard folks. As I understand it, Gamesamba were the ones really pushing for the change and fixing the 1% Cast Speed gem "exploit."

But truthfully, 5% of a second is what, .95 seconds? You're only removing 50 milliseconds. So at 20% you're only removing about 200ms. It's still only a split of a second, and in an active or fast-paced game situation, most people aren't going to perceive such tiny reductions in time for casting a spell/using a skill, etc.

I think that has always been the problem with such small percentages of reduction. But the calculations controlling them weren't so linear I'm thinking, so the perception of cast time reduction were greater before the "fix."

In essence, it becomes a math vs. perceived kinda thing. Watching a kettle boil vs. not watching it. So, the question becomes, what must be done to make the game more enjoyable and fun? A mathematical correction, or a perception correction? I vote perception myself since it will be immediately noticeable.

[VandaMan]

Originally Posted by Kitsunie

rather when you had any amount of CS an alternate calculation was used that had a rounding error and simply lowered the cast time of all spells by 0.25sec.

I'm not sure where you heard that, but it's incorrect. It wasn't an alternate calculation, it was just a rounding issue that made huge differences for short cast times.

Originally Posted by Kitsunie

This is the bug that was "corrected", that countless players were also banned on Raven for "abusing"...

I don't know where you heard that, but it's also incorrect. No one was banned for it on Raven.

Originally Posted by Vaylos

Don't jump on NGD too hard folks. As I understand it, Gamesamba were the ones really pushing for the change and fixing the 1% Cast Speed gem "exploit."

GameSamba didn't push for anything, someone reported the 1% cast speed gem thing to them, and they forwarded it to NGD. NGD found that it was caused by some compounding error with rounding something off in their calculation, and decided to fix it.

Whether the current cast speed is terrible or not is a completely different issue. The formulas weren't working as intended, so it was a bug that had to be fixed. Cast times can be adjusted from there, but you can't just leave bad code because you like the effects of the bug.

[Zordak]

Originally Posted by VandaMan

Whether the current cast speed is terrible or not is a completely different issue. The formulas weren't working as intended, so it was a bug that had to be fixed. Cast times can be adjusted from there, but you can't just leave bad code because you like the effects of the bug.

While I agree that bugs should be fixed, they should not be fixed one-sidedly when they impact gameplay so severely: Frosk in his spanish post on this topic stated his understanding for player's reactions as they "grew up" with this faulty cast time calculation.
However, he did not see that a number of balance decisions concerning cast speed calculation, spell ranges and cast times have been made to the game in the time this bug was effective. Not to mention the overall gameplay acceleration introduced with horn of the wind.

Now only one side has been modified. It would have been better to fix this bug together with a thought-through adaptation of cast times for some spells. Part of the ...emotional response is certainly due to the knowledge about the development timescale, leaving us in uncertainty whether this will be topical next month or next year.
Another reason why a combined fix/change might have been a better choice.

Z.

[Ilakagina]

As there are so many rumors about how this works I decided to test it making screen videos and analyzing them picture by picture to get the real cast times ... at the moment I just got the results for the 10 seconds Golems invocation and prickling ivy with and without arcane devotion and 0% or 10% CS gear.
I'll continue with some 3 and 2 second spells and with other % of CS gear in the next days.

So far I can present you this (invocation times are calculated from clicking the button until appearance of spell in combat log)

Invocate Golem (official cast time 10 seconds)

without CS = 10.20 seconds
10% CS (no arcane devotion) = 9.07 seconds
100% CS (that means arc. devotian 5 active) = 5.33 seconds
110% CS (10% gear + arc devotion) = 4.94 seconds

seems everything fine so far, but now it's becoming strange

Prickling Ivy (official cast time 1 second)

without CS = 1.80 seconds
10% CS (no arcane devotion) = 1.93 seconds
100% CS (that means arc. devotian 5 active) = 1.40 seconds
110% CS (10% gear + arc devotion) = 1.47 seconds



tomorrow more

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by VandaMan

Whether the current cast speed is terrible or not is a completely different issue. The formulas weren't working as intended, so it was a bug that had to be fixed. Cast times can be adjusted from there, but you can't just leave bad code because you like the effects of the bug.

If you decide to fix it and you see it ruins gameplay, you should fix at the sae time as you adjust the values.

[PT_DaAr_PT]

Originally Posted by Ilakagina

(invocation times are calculated from clicking the button until appearance of spell in combat log)

There are too many factors involved in the combat log, you can't measure Cast speed bonuses accurately from that, especially not from different spells, some spells aren't recorded until their animation starts/ends(Meteor is an example) and ping affects the delay on your client while the server gets it right, on your screen you might still be waiting to see it on your log, but on everyone else it's already casted.

[Ilakagina]

Originally Posted by PT_DaAr_PT

There are too many factors involved in the combat log, you can't measure Cast speed bonuses accurately from that,

What would do you suggest instead? To define the time when the blue invocation bar is full as the end? I have no problem with that, if you think that is more accurate I'll use this.

Beside of that technical questions what I want to proofe is if CS gear makes casting faster or not with the current method.

Btw: ping was between 55 and 65ms and the framerate tolerance is 66ms

[PT_DaAr_PT]

Originally Posted by Ilakagina

To define the time when the blue invocation bar is full as the end?

I am not aware of other ways to measure with precision. That would be my guess.

[VandaMan]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

If you decide to fix it and you see it ruins gameplay, you should fix at the sae time as you adjust the values.

I agree of course, I just find it a little silly that some people complain about a bug fix when bug fixes are what most of are always asking NGD for. The complaint should be "please lower our cast times," and not "bring back the bugged cast speed" is all I meant to say.