Why does no-one play this game anymore?

[kmdk]

Originally Posted by Shining-Scias

A few hints that only need a few minutes to be thought of...

Why new players don't want to play this game :

- Shitty graphics & engine
- Very primitive combat system
- Uninspiring quests & lore
- Insane amount of grinding required before getting some fun
- Obscure damage/armor/stats calculation
- Huge lack of customisation options
- No polish
- Gamigo/Gamesamba confusing redirections & server region lock
...

Why old players are tired of this game :

- No really new game content
- Growing frustration due to the insane amount of old bugs not being resolved
- Growing frustration due to Class/Gear imbalance not being addressed
- F2P heading more towards P2W
- Latest updates being disappointing
- Community becoming crappy
...

+1 one to this ,fun ?..what is fun ,this game brings only frustration ,from crapy resists system based on luck to crash the game when you are in a middle to fight and pay to win .

Even to the horrible and lame ever think that i ever have seen ,respawn of NPC's 2 hours to sell mounts ..lmao ...

I'll be back and invest my money in this game when will bring more fun than frustration ,or maybe NGD will make a new game ...

[_Kharbon_]

Why does no-one play this game anymore? Well, the answer to that is easy - lot of people play this game.
Better question would be, "why does Haven (formerly Horus & Raven) have so low base user population?"
The reason for the above is lack of international advertising, combined with multiple small game servers and lack of developer-user communication (support). Another major problem is player retention, since RvR is falsely advertised (starts at higher levels only). Game content is only basic, especially at low levels, where you only quest & grind. For hours.

Those basic problems are the main reason for low population of Haven. Bugs, balance and/or "disclosing resist formula" are minor problems, that come in notice usually after the player has already adhered to the game & is more likely to remain.

[LittleHomer]

The answer of this question is simple: No feature in this game is working 100%.

- Spells aren't doin what they should (sotw, ...)
- something about 50% of the spells are useless
- NGD isn't accepting suggestions of the community
- there isn't a balance update since 2009 I think?
- there are still many bugs
- upcomin features aren't usable cause of the low rewards (warmaster equip, champion equip --> no bonus on it, ...)
- the combat system is really simpel; there aren't spells like "your 3. hit is a double hit", or something like "the next spell will be blocked", ...
- the damage isn't balanced !! (marksmen damage, range 30+++ --> 800-1200 with one spell. Warlock damage, range 30---- --> maybe 600?)
- the game is a pure P2W (u buy ximerin, then u have good equip, then u deal damage, then u are pro)
- no real endgame content
- aaand so on
- ...

[fotomay]

i would respectfully disagree with most of what Littlehomer says :-

- No feature in this game is working 100% - not true. much of the game is working as intended.

- Spells aren't doin what they should (sotw, ...) - regrettably we cannot conclude this unless the full formulas are disclosed. i suspect ngd does not actually know the full formulas. people who complain about sotw are complaining about what the spell description says. but the mathetical formula is clearly different. the best thing to do is not to have such high faith in sotw.

- something about 50% of the spells are useless - it is rare to find an mmo where every spell is used. in fact, there is no need to have every spell useable for pvp.

- NGD isn't accepting suggestions of the community - people keep making this point but, truth is, ngd is not obliged to accept the community' suggestions. ngd owns the game and not its players. if players dont like it, then there are many other (better?) mmos. just play another one.

- there isn't a balance update since 2009 I think? - once again, ngd is not bliged to provide regular balance updates. while i suspect regnum may be within 2 years of a major update, ngd is not obliged to bring it out sooner nor later.

- there are still many bugs - other mmos have just as many bugs but most non-pvp mmos never discover them. pvp mmos always discover and have more bugs because of the high intensity of pvp. i am almost certain Aion and Aika have just as many exploits as Regnum.

- upcomin features aren't usable cause of the low rewards (warmaster equip, champion equip --> no bonus on it, ...) - i find it odd that players still play for this junk. the only thing worth playing pvp for is to hear the death scream of ur enemy. nothing else matters , though of course like agladiator i prefer a somewhat level playing field.

- the combat system is really simpel; there aren't spells like "your 3. hit is a double hit", or something like "the next spell will be blocked", ... - why should there be any of this? it adds nothing. CoR is drawn from somewhat from DnD rules in terms of hits, resists and (much larger) damage. double hits and next spell blocks are from a different pnp/mmo genre (it culd be fun, but adds nothing to the puzzle of killing ur enemy).

- the damage isn't balanced !! (marksmen damage, range 30+++ --> 800-1200 with one spell. Warlock damage, range 30---- --> maybe 600?) - the damage IS balanced. CoR has always been about sudden death. marksman have always been about massive long range damamge. Locks need that high damage to balance out barb 1,000+ single hits. You could adjust HP or balance but the key thing is time to death. CoR is about 2-3 hits to death by barb - if that is too scary for players, then play some other mmo.

- the game is a pure P2W (u buy ximerin, then u have good equip, then u deal damage, then u are pro) - it is not p2w. in the majority of encounters, the determinant of the victor should be the sequence of skill use and not OP items. While I admit recently players with OP boss items have been very visible, there is strong debate going on right now to try to fix it. My suggestion is time limiting boss items.

- no real endgame content - not true. CoR probably has the best endgame RvR pvp content in the industry. You may claim its competitors GW2, Aika or Aion have better endgame pvp, but that is a matter of taste only. (GW2's endgame sucks from what i hear).

to me, the game seems fine, if somewhat buggy and dated - which is not unusual for a game of its type and vintage.

[Awrath]

Originally Posted by fotomay

i would respectfully disagree with most of what Littlehomer says :-

- No feature in this game is working 100% - not true. much of the game is working as intended.

We are not playing the same game. How is much of the game working as intended? What world are you living in. Is it intended that people should chase down people with horse? Is it intended that the drop rate sucks? Is it intended that random resists ruin this game? Is it intended that absolute spells such as precise block have been bugged for nearly 2 years? No. Let's all just ignore the hundreds of bugs shall we.

Originally Posted by fotomay

- Spells aren't doin what they should (sotw, ...) - regrettably we cannot conclude this unless the full formulas are disclosed. i suspect ngd does not actually know the full formulas. people who complain about sotw are complaining about what the spell description says. but the mathetical formula is clearly different. the best thing to do is not to have such high faith in sotw.

I don't know how long you have been playing, but spells such as SotW and UM used to be a lot more reliable. Now, not so much, and while NGD might not divulge the formulae behind these spells, there is clearly something wrong, when someone who is not using a resist spell ends up resisting more than I do with SotW.

Originally Posted by fotomay

- something about 50% of the spells are useless - it is rare to find an mmo where every spell is used. in fact, there is no need to have every spell useable for pvp.

So why have those spells in the first place? I would love to see more spells usable and more diversity in the set ups people use.

Originally Posted by fotomay

- NGD isn't accepting suggestions of the community - people keep making this point but, truth is, ngd is not obliged to accept the community' suggestions. ngd owns the game and not its players. if players dont like it, then there are many other (better?) mmos. just play another one.

Yet, in order to survive, they need to take suggestions on board. The truth is not about NGD's obligations about taking on suggestions but, about whether they are able to take on suggestions, as they have said themselves, the code used in this game is a mess.

Originally Posted by fotomay

- there isn't a balance update since 2009 I think? - once again, ngd is not bliged to provide regular balance updates. while i suspect regnum may be within 2 years of a major update, ngd is not obliged to bring it out sooner nor later.

What? So, the game sucks due to ill balance, but they have no obligation to make it better. Brilliant business plan right there!

Originally Posted by fotomay

- there are still many bugs - other mmos have just as many bugs but most non-pvp mmos never discover them. pvp mmos always discover and have more bugs because of the high intensity of pvp. i am almost certain Aion and Aika have just as many exploits as Regnum.

What a ridiculous argument right there. So, bugs which you don't notice are fine, I agree, I couldn't care less about bugs that don't affect game play, but when they do affect game play, it matters, and it should be fixed sooner rather than later. Just because other games have bugs doesn't justify not polishing a game.

Originally Posted by fotomay

- upcomin features aren't usable cause of the low rewards (warmaster equip, champion equip --> no bonus on it, ...) - i find it odd that players still play for this junk. the on So, SotW isn'tly thing worth playing pvp for is to hear the death scream of ur enemy. nothing else matters , though of course like agladiator i prefer a somewhat level playing field.

This makes no sense.

#

Originally Posted by fotomay

- the combat system is really simpel; there aren't spells like "your 3. hit is a double hit", or something like "the next spell will be blocked", ... - why should there be any of this? it adds nothing. CoR is drawn from somewhat from DnD rules in terms of hits, resists and (much larger) damage. double hits and next spell blocks are from a different pnp/mmo genre (it culd be fun, but adds nothing to the puzzle of killing ur enemy).

Again, it adds a bit more content to the game than just pew pew pew/slash slash slash - win. Not to mention the insane advantage ranged players have when it comes to kiting. Just the other day I beat 2 warlocks and a barb by kiting the shit out of them with a hunter. So, yes, the combat system needs work.

Originally Posted by fotomay

- the damage isn't balanced !! (marksmen damage, range 30+++ --> 800-1200 with one spell. Warlock damage, range 30---- --> maybe 600?) - the damage IS balanced. CoR has always been about sudden death. marksman have always been about massive long range damamge. Locks need that high damage to balance out barb 1,000+ single hits. You could adjust HP or balance but the key thing is time to death. CoR is about 2-3 hits to death by barb - if that is too scary for players, then play some other mmo.

Yeah OK. I don't know what game you are playing. Regnum is not about 2-3 hits to death from a barb, nor is it about 600-700 normals from a marx. This is called imbalance. The major problem is the armour system used in this game, which I suggest you search for in this forum to get an understanding of why absolute damage reductions is not a suitable model.

Originally Posted by fotomay

- the game is a pure P2W (u buy ximerin, then u have good equip, then u deal damage, then u are pro) - it is not p2w. in the majority of encounters, the determinant of the victor should be the sequence of skill use and not OP items. While I admit recently players with OP boss items have been very visible, there is strong debate going on right now to try to fix it. My suggestion is time limiting boss items.

Agree that it's not pure P2W, but in recent times and with the current drop rate, it is sure heading this way. And why bring boss items into a P2W discussion, they are drops, an entirely different topic. Let's also not forget armour enhancements, which still cannot be dropped and offer a considerable advantage to those using WM armour with full enhancements.

Originally Posted by fotomay

- no real endgame content - not true. CoR probably has the best endgame RvR pvp content in the industry. You may claim its competitors GW2, Aika or Aion have better endgame pvp, but that is a matter of taste only. (GW2's endgame sucks from what i hear).

Shit, one post I agree with. I haven't played other games, but I do enjoy the endgame content in this game, and used to enjoy it a lot more.

Originally Posted by fotomay

to me, the game seems fine, if somewhat buggy and dated - which is not unusual for a game of its type and vintage.

No, it's not.

[fotomay]

Originally Posted by Awrath

We are not playing the same game. How is much of the game working as intended?

the game loads. the map shows status of war. when u pick up relics/gems they move around the map with you. when you attack someone and their hp goes to zero they die. when you kill monsters u get loot. u level up. 90%+ of the game works as intended. Getting to this 90% is a major dev effort on its own (speaking as a programmer).

Originally Posted by Awrath

I don't know how long you have been playing, but spells such as SotW and UM used to be a lot more reliable.

yea, i remember when they were more reliable. I remember when dispel rank 3 worked 80% of the time. now u need rank 4 to make it work 80%+. Something must have happened which ngd was not aware of. But the point im trying to make is that none of these probabilities are set in stone. It's sad and depressing when ur character's abilities change due t\o things ourside our control, but that's how it is When it happened to me in nwn, i stopped playing for a few months. The remedy is to reveal the formula, but repeatedly griping about it won't help

i guess what im trying to say is vote with your feet. im always looking at other mmos.

Originally Posted by Awrath

So why have those spells in the first place? I would love to see more spells usable and more diversity in the set ups people use.

because 90% of mmos all have the same problem. 70%+ of abilities are useles sin pvp. Take Lotro as an example, 50% of their spells duplicate what the next spell does. Only about 10% of mmos actually take the trouble to have a system which covers all the spells. Most just jumble stuns and damage. At least Regnum has a working (sub)set of spells. What im trying to say is that improving Regnum's spells doesn't put it significantly ahead of the mmo crowd.

Originally Posted by Awrath

Yet, in order to survive, they need to take suggestions on board.

I agree. And if they don't then they should go under. I'm not going to waste my time telling them too much. Good devs should be able to digest what the community wants, explain their choices and make it happen. If not, maybe the devs are just working on a new successor game. Yea, also the code seems a mess.

Originally Posted by Awrath

What? So, the game sucks due to ill balance, but they have no obligation to make it better. Brilliant business plan right there!

do you think us grumbling about it more is going to make any difference? is anything any of us have said adding anything new? No. bois and u and everyone have made excellent and fairly clear suggestions. All we can do is really occasionally remind ngd and tell them to get a move on. Oh and discuss other good mmos, which apparently the forum mods here don't encourage (which is ridiculous, because how else do u get improvement except by knowing your competition?)

Originally Posted by Awrath

What a ridiculous argument right there. So, bugs which you don't notice are fine, I agree, I couldn't care less about bugs that don't affect game play,...

the point is, bugs whose fixing costs more than the marginal revevue they would add are not worth fixing. Where the marginal benefit is less than the marginal cost then the benefit is not worth acquiring. it's a well known rule of business economics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_cost. and it is why many f2p mmos today are buggy. So yes, from a matter of logic all bugs should be fixed. But from the matter of money: no, actually many are left unfixed.

Originally Posted by Awrath

"- upcomin features aren't usable cause of the low rewards (warmaster equip, champion equip --> no bonus on it, ...) - i find it odd that players still play for this junk. the on So, SotW isn'tly thing worth playing pvp for is to hear the death scream of ur enemy. nothing else matters , though of course like agladiator i prefer a somewhat level playing field." --- This makes no sense.

sry typo. i meant to type: "i find it odd that players still play for this junk. The only thing worth pplaying pvp for is to hear the death scream of ur enemy..." etc. Basically, what I mean is that warmaster equip, champion equip etc are intended to be largely cosmetic. Players should really only play for the joy of killing someone else.

Originally Posted by Awrath

Again, it adds a bit more content to the game than just pew pew pew/slash slash slash - win....

Stuff like double hits and next spell blocks can be fun, but adding them requires are complete revamp of the entire system. When DnD pvp was designed (on which CoR is based), a great deal of thought was put into the resists, to hit, crits and evades system. Introducing additional items is actually taking ideas from a completely different genre of game and would produce a very foreign feel to combat. It is like trying to present and market a new DnD system. Asian mmos do a sloppy rework all the time, and their pvp combat sucks bad.

So, I think your ideas are great, but personally i wud need a lot more work done on fitting it all in to be persuaded that it is worthwhile cost-wise.

Originally Posted by Awrath

Yeah OK. I don't know what game you are playing. Regnum is not about 2-3 hits to death from a barb, nor is it about 600-700 normals from a marx. This is called imbalance. The major problem is the armour system used in this game, which I suggest you search for in this forum to get an understanding of why absolute damage reductions is not a suitable model.

As the game presently stands, the biggest killer are barbs and 2-3 hits to kill is their benchmark. I'm not talking about what could be, I'm talking about what is - which is what the majority of players playing now accept. There are those that propose change, but that's for the future and I'm not sure their views represent the majority of the players. (not even my views may do so.)

Absolute vs % resist and whether we should change it is a different issue to what the game is right now. Two steps are needed to determine whether that proposal is needed: 1) Final precise definition of what the forum whats and 2) Some form of indication of whether the playing community wants it. Neither of these questions have been or can be answered by forum participants alone. (though they can be usefulyl discussed for ngd to determine).

Originally Posted by Awrath

Agree that it's not pure P2W, but in recent times and with the current drop rate, it is sure heading this way. And why bring boss items into a P2W discussion, they are drops, an entirely different topic. Let's also not forget armour enhancements,..

Yea i agree its always a risk. All items which increase the fighting effectiveness of a character are relevant to a discussion on whether a game has become pay to win. This includes boss items, because they can be stacked on top of benefits which are paid for with real money. And you're right, enhancements r also relevant.

Originally Posted by Awrath

Shit, one post I agree with. I haven't played other games, but I do enjoy the endgame content in this game, and used to enjoy it a lot more.

someone was proposing a different server with the old version? it would be great if we could try that, but i suspect we can't get funding for it.

Originally Posted by Awrath

No, it's not.

It's not fine for a game as old as Regnum to have bugs? I dunno.. i look around at similar mmos and their forums are pretty much the same as Regnum. Here's MU Online forums. MU Online is much larger than regnum and is from roughly the same vintage (~2006) :-

suggestions forums
http://forums.webzen.com/Forum39.aspx
bug report forum
http://forums.webzen.com/Forum38.aspx
here's a MU Online thread complaining about MU's RNG :-
http://forums.webzen.com/Topic809838.aspx

[kmdk]

Originally Posted by fotomay

i look around at others MMO
i look around at others MMO
i look around at others MMO
i look around at others MMO
i look around at others MMO
i look around at others MMO
.
.
.
i look around others MMO

Never , ever this is a argument , is like a persone tells you :"you are ugly" , and you look around and tell :"at least that pig is even more ugly than me "

[bois]

Awrath, debating with that fellow is somewhat useless. He reminds me of a thing my grandmother used to tell me.
" A plaster for every sore, never mind the festering underneath."

[_Kharbon_]

I do not mean to step into the debate, but first fotomays paragraph made me actually laugh. Here's why:

Originally Posted by fotomay

the game loads.

Yes, game loads. Unless there is a random update, and you're the unlucky minority that suddenly can't enter the game.

Originally Posted by fotomay

the map shows status of war.

Map is working as intended, everything fine here. If you ignore some of the annoying features, such as not saving the position on screen..

Originally Posted by fotomay

when u pick up relics/gems they move around the map with you.

Several times this failed. Relics got stuck in the ground again and again. Is it intended, that hunters under camo can pick up relics without revealing themselves? Is it intended, that sometimes you just can't mount up, when carrying a relic?

Originally Posted by fotomay

when you attack someone and their hp goes to zero they die.

Actually false. Unless this was changed very recently, when your hp equals zero, you are still alive. If you obtain more dmg (your hp would be in negative numbers), only then you die.

Originally Posted by fotomay

when you kill monsters u get loot.

Not with all monsters (eg. golems on Dark beach don't drop any loot, only gold and a lucky item here & there). Also you must do a certain amount of dmg/support in order to get any xp counted (=chance of loot).
Also, if you're too high level, you simply don't get any reward for an unchallenging mob.

[fotomay]

lol in general it all works then. it's workable !
its not like a defective 747 which falls out of the sky every launch lol.

Originally Posted by _Kharbon_

Yes, game loads. Unless there is a random update, and you're the unlucky minority that suddenly can't enter the game.
Map is working as intended, everything fine here. If you ignore some of the annoying features, such as not saving the position on screen..
Several times this failed. Relics got stuck in the ground again and again. Is it intended, that hunters under camo can pick up relics without revealing themselves? Is it intended, that sometimes you just can't mount up, when carrying a relic?
Actually false. Unless this was changed very recently, when your hp equals zero, you are still alive. If you obtain more dmg (your hp would be in negative numbers), only then you die.
Not with all monsters (eg. golems on Dark beach don't drop any loot, only gold and a lucky item here & there). Also you must do a certain amount of dmg/support in order to get any xp counted (=chance of loot).
Also, if you're too high level, you simply don't get any reward for an unchallenging mob.