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Old 06-07-2008, 12:59 AM   #191
CumeriTarenes
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one question hell_bound:

Do you believe in what Darwin said or do you believe in creationism?

It's a quite important matter I think when we talk about why parents love their children.

Actually, parents do not only love their own children, there is something we know as schema of childlike characteristics. I think this is what makes parents love their adopted children. It also is the wish to have someone to care about, the wish to become a happy familiy which is influenced by a certain expectancy in our society.
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Old 06-07-2008, 01:32 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes
one question hell_bound:

Do you believe in what Darwin said or do you believe in creationism?

It's a quite important matter I think when we talk about why parents love their children.

Actually, parents do not only love their own children, there is something we know as schema of childlike characteristics. I think this is what makes parents love their adopted children. It also is the wish to have someone to care about, the wish to become a happy familiy which is influenced by a certain expectancy in our society.
First of all CT I must say, I'm honored that you have responded to one of my posts...

It has been far to long since the last time we talked!


Now to your questions....


I do believe in some of the things that Darwin talked about, but you must understand....

All human ideologies are incomplete...

To take Darwin as absolute truth is folly...

I believe that we need both science and religion/spirituality...


Now, the question is did that answers you first question?


However, I disagree with your use of the word "schema" here, as if humans have an emotional schema for children...

The problem with using the word "schema" in such a way is that discounts the fact that schemas are really information pathways that we have in our brains that we pick up from environmental cues...

Now information contains no emotional response, its just pure raw data

However, the outcome from how one processes that data is the mechanism by which humans attribute feelings to...

And most of these attributions are based on needs...

Such as fight/flight responses, to name one example....
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:37 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hell_bound
If you follow this line of thinking to its logical end you must ask yourself:

"How do parents who adopt fit in with this whole Darwin concept I have, which explains the meaning of why love exists - the propagation of the species?"

For I contend that those parents who adopt have no stake in the child, to raise it if you will, for they share no genetic material with the child they adopted...
It was just an example, yet very interesting and deserves to be analyzed. We agree that love is a "frontend", a "mask" for a specific need, as we would call it on I.T.

We feel genetically compelled towards parenthood when we reach a certain age, so we feel the need of having children, at least to raise them. Adopting goes against the "natural behaviour" of most species and it's a characteristic you can find only in some mammals. It helps us to perpetuate the race, and proves that we have some control on our actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hell_bound
Actually, under psychology the fundamental thing that motivates all human behavior is need, and need only...

For example, look to Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs... (It must be noted that when reading Maslow's work he will mention "love", however, remember that "love" is a word with many meanings and in order to truly understand his concepts of needs - you must also account that one meaning of love is need)...

The truth is humans don't need love - they just need specific needs meet to be well adjusted...

Thus, "love" in the classical definition can be replaced with "belonging" which in the end is the root of the emotional states we attribute to the word "love" ...
I agree on this. I see love, pride and hate (the triad I was talking about in my previous post) as the same feeling separated into three main states: the love to others, the love to ourselves and the lack of love.

Since that "belonging" or need is the main drive to our actions, that "warm thing" and all the adrenaline you feel when you're in love is just a signal our mind sends to our conscious, right?

We used to program bots with a situational task selection by priority scheme. It uses logic gates or semaphores altogether with some algorithms to determine the "needs" of a robot. It works almost the same to the Maslow's pyramid (I've been doing my homework :P), putting the primary tasks first.

Ohh, I hated that primitive task scheduler... It was so buggy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hell_bound
But even within this statement behavioral studies on animals have shown that thinking is not solely a human trait...
I didn't mean that humans were the only ones who could think, I said that we think. That doesn't exclude other mammals from thinking.


I enjoy this kind of threads
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Old 06-07-2008, 04:56 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xephandor
... We agree that love is a "frontend", a "mask" for a specific need, as we would call it on I.T. ...
Indeed we do...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xephandor
... We feel genetically compelled towards parenthood when we reach a certain age, so we feel the need of having children, at least to raise them...
This is a rather broad generalization, for if it wasn't how would one account for people that chose to be single (and not wanting to have kids), or those couples that never want to have kids?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xephandor
... Adopting goes against the "natural behaviour" of most species and it's a characteristic you can find only in some mammals...
Actually adoption occurs outside the mammalian species as well...

For example, I read a story recently where there was an adult female pigeon, in a Chinese zoo, that adopted and tried to take care of a baby chimpanzee by bring it food, sleeping with it and keeping it company ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xephandor
... It helps us to perpetuate the race, and proves that we have some control on our actions...
Yes on the one hand one can conclude that this does indeed show that humans have evolved beyond their instincts...

However, to concluded that adoption is tied to the perpetuation of the races is a bit of a stretch...

Remember the goal of mating, at least under Darwin's theory? It was to propagate one's own genes...

Race does not factor into this, for when we speak of instincts - we speak only of selfish needs...

However, since humans have evolved beyond the mere reliance on instincts, for we are still tied to them, we must ask what is the motivation for adoption...

One simple answer is that most cultures around the world value their young... And so they create these belief systems, which are heavily tied to the symbolism of race and it's future, that encourage propagation of mating and bearing children...

Soon these belief systems become institutionalized through messages of religion (Sodom and Gomorrah), public ceremonies (think heterosexual weddings) and written into laws (for example, in the United States homosexual marriages are not recognized under most state legal systems and thus are not given the same benefits as heterosexual married couples)...

Through these institutions people are socialized (or taught) these behaviors and so people become to think of these behaviors as a-typical, normal...

Teaching cause people to believe that they must act and think a certain way...

For example, a female who grows up in a society that perpetuates such beliefs may be more inclined to adopt if she cannot produce eggs of her own...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xephandor
... Since... "belonging" or need is the main drive to our actions, that "warm thing" ...[,] the adrenaline you feel when you're in love[,] is just a signal our mind sends to our conscious, right?
Yes, there is a definite correlation to chemical reactions in our brains and when our needs are fulfilled...

We call such reactions "pleasurable"...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xephandor
... We used to program bots with a situational task selection by priority scheme. It uses logic gates or semaphores altogether with some algorithms to determine the "needs" of a robot. It works almost the same to the Maslow's pyramid (I've been doing my homework :P), putting the primary tasks first...
Artificial intelligence - the beauty of theoretical psychology when applied to technology...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xephandor
... I enjoy this kind of threads...
So do I

.'.
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Old 06-07-2008, 12:07 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skatz1980
... sometimes babies are brought into the world and endure a not so great, to an awful childhood...some of these babies grow up to [despise] society, they turn to crime, drugs, prostitution. The others through sheer determination, turn out to decent adults with maybe a few kinks in their armor so to speak(speaking from experience here), they're quite happy with society, go along with the theory that sometimes we have to deal with the tough stuff and move on...
Actually in the theoretical world of psychology, what you just described, is called resilience...

Resiliency is determined by three factors:

Biology (for example, hormone levels), personality traits (for example, temperament) and social factors (for example, the type of parents one has)...

Those who are considered to have high resilience are said to either have the right mixture of the three factors, or excel in one or two areas of the three factors...

To note most humans fall into the latter, rather then the former...
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Old 06-09-2008, 08:45 AM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skatz1980
Well in that case..i take after my dad...i have his courage and his determination..it takes a lot to knock me down and i have his optimism..
<pulls mec mec onto an ice arena> <pushes her down> hehehehe jk
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Old 07-02-2008, 05:55 AM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuthienNenharma
Love hurts.

End of the discussion.
Only wanted to quote this again, before someone forgets about it.

Guess why I am awake at 7am, I hate it
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Old 07-02-2008, 09:08 AM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuthienNenharma
Love hurts.

End of the discussion.
Yeah.

'Make war, not love'...
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:16 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makarios68
Yeah.

'Make war, not love'...
So wise, yet so... Dwarven.
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Old 07-02-2008, 04:41 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraetyz
So wise, yet so... Dwarven.
Hey, watch it!

The Dwarves are the mightiest and noblest af all the races.

Let not their vertically challenged appearance and ickle legs decieve you.

One day we will rule the entire world MUHWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
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