Most overpowered class?

[ncvr]

You think other classes don't use mana then, do you?

Wind Wall + EB + Arcane Devotion is even more mana than that, and if we cast AS that's -300/450 of our already low hp.

And to how many points we invest in our defense:

In theory, warlocks have a ton of extra hp because of all our spells. But...

It would be better to keep Necromancy and Mana control to 15. They have to get them both to 19 for all of that "defense". Warlocks are low on points as it is, with Elements, Arcania and Mental disciplines to take care of as well.

Speaking of Arcania they need that maxed as well for effective Wind Wall, even then it's about hard to take care of since it's still 30/60 dur/cd.

So that's 3 maxed disciplines required for their defense. Actually most already have all those to 15, so it's just over 1 maxed discipline in total. Most marksmen use SP on 1-4, and most marksmen already have aiming mastery to those lvls for Death Sentence and Foresight.

Now for barbs:
-3 weapon disciplines to 15 (resistences lvl 4)
-Tactics to 15 (caution lvl 4)
-Warcries maxed (Frenzy lvl 5)

I really wish people would stop using such ignorant arguements.

EDIT: Barbs also need Unstoppable Madness. That's another 4 points, another reason to max warcries.

[magnet]

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

well, the funny thing is...I heard realmmates saying that you cried for mana all the time, even tough they supplied you with mana very much. When I use all my spells and spend all my mana I am a killing maschine, true. But without mana you are dead meat...no speed, not much base damage, no chance to get mana back. Just be a marks in a party without a conju or a mana spending warlock...playing won't be that easy as you described. A barb with DI and mana supply will be much more effecient than a marksman with it.

I use mana if there's Conjurers around obviously. Why wouldn't I? I use less mana if I'm alone, that doesn't prevent me from being a killing machine. This is a RvR game and 90% of the time there are conjurers around.
Now I don't know what "crying" for mana means but I always ASK for mana of course, wouldn't it be stupid not to? It's your choice if you don't ask for it, because 90% of the time with Conjurers : don't ask = don't get.

Btw the only time I ever asked mana with my Marks was at Menirah, with Znurre & Kathris only so it's not hard to know who is the realmmate.

Now if you are talking about my KNIGHT, THERE I do ask mana. See the difference is that with my Marks I can stay around a Conj with mana comm, but with my Knight I get to the enemy and they are full mana, they have awesome Conjurers most of the time (ie at Pines gate) and how do you think you can take on a lv 50 Barb full mana with 0 mana?

You only show your lack of knowledge in other classes if you think only Marks need mana! Of course they use a lot but they are lucky that a lot of Conjurers KNOW how much they use and I don't have to ask in practice, most Conjurers I played with filed me up with mana. And if the Conju don't want to give me mana, they don't, that's all. They can even /ignore me if they don't want me asking. I'm using my mana first to protect their asses so it's their call. If I don't have mana, don't worry I'll escape. But they might die in the process.

Finally it's about what your class can do. Yes I rushed into 20 Syrtis without SotW to lightning arrow+ignus scortch and divert the attention like my knight would have done. And I evaded just as much as my Knight would have blocked. And I did more damage for less mana than my Knight. That's the simple truth.

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

So, go out without a conju...and you will see how you will suck without mana. A marks is considered to be a sniper, that means he has to be able to do much damage in a short period of time on a single target. But...after killing the target he is almost without mana.

Sorry I did and I didn't suck. Didn't you read I killed quite some Warlocks lv 50 and Hunters on 1vs1? Do you think the Warjurer I played with had mana comm' or was giving me mana permanently? I just rest when I'm low mana.

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

And to your full defensive marksman: Which other offensive class has to level up a discipline to 19 only to get defence skills? A full defence marksman has to spend points in:
dodge, evasive tactics, cat reflexes, spell elude, acrobatic, wits and strategic position. Casting all spells on lvl 5 will cost 940 mana, a lvl 50 marks has about 1400 mana max. Having all spells at spell lvl 5 will cost 20 power points, the spells you mentioned then (death sentence, arcana strike, ignus scorch and recharged arrows) will take 16 more points. Since you have just 42 points, you have 6 points left (at lvl 45 you even miss 2 points)...and you have no range area at all and just 2 real damage attack spell. Also, the so called much range would be just 1,5m...that is less than 1 sec of running.

Who told you I have all those spells lv 5 or that I have the setup I'd wish if I were lv 50? The fact that I have such a good defense with such a good attack speaks for itself considering I'm level 45 (and afaik that's 40 points not 40).

Marks lv 45 : I have EA lv 5, Arcana Strike lv 5, Serpents bite lv 5, DS lv 4, Ignus Scorch lv 5, and recharged arrows. Good enough to kill pretty much everything.
On my Warlock lv 50: Meteor lv 5, Lightning lv 5, Fireball lv 5, Crystal blast lv5, Magma Blast lv 5... that's pretty much the only decent attack spells Warlocks have and shitty regular attacks. Marks have all their best attack spells in the same tree (Arrow Mastery), many awesome spells in another free tree (Aiming Mastery), all defence in the same tree (Evasion)... Long Bows and Short Bows can be ignored.... Whereas Warlock's good spells are balanced over different trees.

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

When I would have put 4 points into dex passive I would have even used 24 out of 42 points for defence. When I do spend that much points I should expect to evade/resist much and to be able to take much damage. You should ever look if you have points for all the things you consider they are making someone overpowered.

I'm looking at the points. I am playing a Marks. I am experiencing that overpowered class.

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

So, and now tell me how much points a warlock or a barb invests into defence?

Bravo! THEY WOULD IF THEY COULD. I have maxxed ALL defensive skills in my Warlock (except Barrier lv 4 instead of 5, depending on the setup), and if I had Evasion on my Warlock I'm sure that like every Warlock we'd max it just as much as Marks! Barbs put many points in Frenzy, Caution and Unstoppable. Sorry they can't do much more, but I am sure they would take Evasion over damage any day. But wouldn't that be unbalanced? Do you think I would condone that? Not any more than I condone Marksmen having God-like defence, no sorry.

I don't know where you posted this... But you asked if other offensive classes put as many points in defence as Marks... THEY CAN'T. That's the stupidest question I read for some time! Gratz

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

To the rp thing: Why is it like this? Is it not unfair that some classes gain rp more easy than others? We are argueing about power of classes...but it does not realy matter how much power a class has...it matters how the power you have is rewarded. And when all power rewards are balanced, then you can see in rp differences which class has too much or too few powers. Imagine you would nerf a class that gets not that easy rp. The class would have even harder times to get them. Not that i just play for rp, but it is a purpose of the game too, since this is a part of the game that keeps you playing, and that confirms you how good or bad you play.

RP doesn't matter. Balance does.
But it's true, poor Marksmen don't get Rps:

[Envy]

Originally Posted by Necrovarus

You think other classes don't use mana then, do you?

Wind Wall + EB + Arcane Devotion is even more mana than that, and if we cast AS that's -300/450 of our already low hp.

And to how many points we invest in our defense:

In theory, warlocks have a ton of extra hp because of all our spells. But...

It would be better to keep Necromancy and Mana control to 15. They have to get them both to 19 for all of that "defense". Warlocks are low on points as it is, with Elements, Arcania and Mental disciplines to take care of as well.

Speaking of Arcania they need that maxed as well for effective Wind Wall, even then it's about hard to take care of since it's still 30/60 dur/cd.

So that's 3 maxed disciplines required for their defense. Actually most already have all those to 15, so it's just over 1 maxed discipline in total. Most marksmen use SP on 1-4, and most marksmen already have aiming mastery to those lvls for Death Sentence and Foresight.

Now for barbs:
-3 weapon disciplines to 15 (resistences lvl 4)
-Tactics to 15 (caution lvl 4)
-Warcries maxed (Frenzy lvl 5)

I really wish people would stop using such ignorant arguements.

EDIT: Barbs also need Unstoppable Madness. That's another 4 points, another reason to max warcries.

If you would look at what Cumeri was responding to, you'll find it was a counter argument. One to a post implying that the marksman's defense is almost without cost.

Please find the point in my post in which I said marksman had it 'harder' then the other classes. I really wish people would max their reading comprehension discipline.

[ncvr]

Harder than other classes? Marksmen get all their defense in one discipline which is a sacrifice, and one discipline which isn't.

Barbs get it in 5 disciplines, 3 of which are sacrifices.

Warlocks get it in 3 maxed disciplines, the last 191 discipline points of all which are a sacrifice. Actually they get it in 4 disciplines since some people are always talking about Protection Dome despite knowing nothing about it. That last discipline which you must spend at least 203 points on is a sacrifice.

For an alternative reply, read here:

I don't know where you posted this... But you asked if other offensive classes put as many points in defence as Marks... THEY CAN'T. That's the stupidest question I read for some time! Gratz

[Envy]

My point being, I have not once said getting marksman defense was harder than other classes, I was asking you to quote me where I had since you seem to be under that impression.

Edit: I would much prefer our main defensive skills to be split up in our disciplines so I could use skill builds that doesn't use the same ones over and over (tedium). Soon as I reskill, the first thing that goes up is evasion, because as it is now, it's foolish not to be used IMO. I max the discipline just so that the durations and cooldowns are in sync.

[ncvr]

Originally Posted by Gravat

My point being, I have not once said getting marksman defense was harder than other classes, I was asking you to quote me where I had since you seem to be under that impression.

Edit: I would much prefer our main defensive skills to be split up in our disciplines so I could use skill builds that doesn't use the same ones over and over (tedium). Soon as I reskill, the first thing that goes up is evasion, because as it is now, it's foolish not to be used IMO. I max the discipline just so that the durations and cooldowns are in sync.

Ahh, sorry, I was not reading properly.

Anyway I too think that some of the evasive spells should be spread over other disciplines, Acrobatic in Longbows or Spell Elude in Tricks for example.

[fluffy_muffin]

Originally Posted by Necrovarus

Ahh, sorry, I was not reading properly.

Anyway I too think that some of the evasive spells should be spread over other disciplines, Acrobatic in Longbows or Spell Elude in Tricks for example.

<sarcasm>
Vampirism in mana, Shield bash in blunt, bestial wrath in evasion.
</sarcasm>
Disciplines should be placed with some logic. Why Acrobatic should be in any bow discipline? And why spell elude is a trick?

[Envy]

Originally Posted by zielski

<sarcasm>
Vampirism in mana, Shield bash in blunt, bestial wrath in evasion.
</sarcasm>
Disciplines should be placed with some logic. Why Acrobatic should be in any bow discipline? And why spell elude is a trick?

Yup.

They would probably have to remove the skill, implement it again in the other discipline with a different name and description but leaving the effect.

[Arkenion]

Originally Posted by zielski

<sarcasm>
Vampirism in mana, Shield bash in blunt, bestial wrath in evasion.
</sarcasm>
Disciplines should be placed with some logic. Why Acrobatic should be in any bow discipline? And why spell elude is a trick?

Lol today Feanor and I were hunting, he was on his marksman.. We wondered why Track realm enemy isn't in evasion, so marksman could have it too :]]

[fluffy_muffin]

Originally Posted by Arkenion

Lol today Feanor and I were hunting, he was on his marksman.. We wondered why Track realm enemy isn't in evasion, so marksman could have it too :]]

DF log: You casted Bestial wrath (5) -> Arkenion
Ark: Yeah babe! Give me more! ;p