Next step: Invasions! - Page 3

Fiver · 09-04-2014, 01:07 AM

I do like all the effort NGD has made towards COR lately, whatever they do is proactive and we can't fault them for that.

I'd like to run past everyone a mechanic that would add some interesting wrinkles to invasion.

Fog of war: once any gate becomes vulnerable to invasion all realm chat for each realm ends at your bridges.

only banner communication or group/clan chat would work after the bridge.

This would help the defending realm and force some amount of realm cohesion on the invading realm.

Thallium · 09-04-2014, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiver

Fog of war: once any gate becomes vulnerable to invasion all realm chat for each realm ends at your bridges.

I like it. I also like Adrian's ideas. Adding buffs to low-population realms especially has promise for making mis-matched fights more fun for both sides.

Adrian · 10-01-2014, 09:28 AM

Hi everyone!

We're still in a private development stage. This time, we have to change a million of things in the system so in this case the private development will take a bit longer.

While we're at it, we need some specific feedback:

How important do you think it would be to modify the paths from the buildings (castles and forts) to the realm walls? Currently some (or most) of them are boringly plain. Next Invasions system will make a lot of open field wars to happen there, so, would it be wiser to let them open as most of them are now or modify the terrain so they are a bit more difficult to pass through them or see in the distance?

To make it clearer, I'll give an example: Alsius has captured Samal and Shaanarid. The army in Samal gets the Relic and decides to go to Ignis' realm wall. The path to get there is almost plain with the exception of some rocks. If an army from Ignis comes this is great for an open field war but rather monotonous and the sense of danger is rather non-existent. If we put some obstacles, places where an army could hide and make an ambush. This could also allow the attacking army to hesitate to go through them or not, take longer paths or just dare to take the risk, raising the strategy choices.

What do you think?

roonwick · 10-01-2014, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiver

Fog of war: once any gate becomes vulnerable to invasion all realm chat for each realm ends at your bridges.

I like this idea. I like it so much that I would make this permanent, rather than link it to invasion attempts.

Loque · 10-01-2014, 01:40 PM

Firstly, I am a bit skeptic about the one relic needed to invoke an invasion thing. Let me give an example.

Ignis has taken Imperia and Alsius is fighting for the relic there. Now Syrtis take Trelleborg and starts the timer on that relic. Now what should Alsius do? Keep fighting for the Imperia relic or ignore that and go Trelleborg? And going either way brings them more closer to invasion as either Syrtis or Ignis could go wall with the relic, Syrtis being closer to it due to Trelleborg being very near to wall. And in the case when invasion does happen, what next? Alsius will be at wall, invasion ends, but Ignis still has Imperia, they can go to wall again or Syrtis can take Trelleborg/Aggersborg again and the invasion repeats. Where is the end to this? It might keep on happening. Also keep in the mind about the distances between the farthest forts. (Replace any realm with any fort)

Secondly, a quick brainstorm idea would be of control points. Each realm would have 3 control points along the way to the gate which would be needed to be acquired with a relic to start a link/chain towards the gate to invoke the invasion. For example,

Along with terrain modifications this could bring some interesting tactics. The defenders could fight for the control of the points even after losing relics from the forts. Some timer could be set to seige or defend the points, like you cannot of course expect players to be fighting for the points all the time. The gate should be the end result.

Just some ideas, could be a baseline for further discussion.

Kimahri_Ronso · 10-01-2014, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian

...

The real question is, will there be an "army" to do anything against the zerg that is passing by with the relic or not... If it's still 20 VS. 5, it doesn't matter at all.

As long as the invasions are about numbers, you can modify the path of the relic, it won't change anything. You have to rething the whole thing, the core of the problem IS that invasions are still about numbers where tactics does not matter only the numbers, thus it will make one side always disappointed and frustrated while the other one will think he can do anything....Worst thing in general.
Try to change invasions to where not the numbers are the main thing that will pay well to any side but something else... Tactic, whatever. I know it's not easy, but IMHO it would be the right way to go.

Just my opinion

Masterkick · 10-01-2014, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimahri_Ronso

The real question is, will there be an "army" to do anything against the zerg that is passing by with the relic or not... If it's still 20 VS. 5, it doesn't matter at all.

As long as the invasions are about numbers, you can modify the path of the relic, it won't change anything. You have to rething the whole thing, the core of the problem IS that invasions are still about numbers where tactics does not matter only the numbers, thus it will make one side always disappointed and frustrated while the other one will think he can do anything....Worst thing in general.
Try to change invasions to where not the numbers are the main thing that will pay well to any side but something else... Tactic, whatever. I know it's not easy, but IMHO it would be the right way to go.

Just my opinion

Actually, the purpose of what Adrián is suggesting is to make things more tactical. So that's a step in the right direction!

Raindance · 10-01-2014, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterkick

Actually, the purpose of what Adrián is suggesting is to make things more tactical. So that's a step in the right direction!

It still won't matter on small servers like Haven or Nemon. Adrian, you need to stop thinking in terms of how it will look like on Ra, because implementing the same update you intend for Ra on Haven will be a total failure, just like the past invasions and warmaster updates are right now. Kimahri Ronso is right, there will be 20 v 5 fights and no obstacles will help at all, instead, they'll rather be shields for the already zerging realm where people will exploit the to-be bugs and try to jump on them, or hide inside them.

NaturalBornKiller · 10-01-2014, 03:09 PM

Dudes... it's an RvR... of course numbers matters... it matters now and it ever will

Loque · 10-01-2014, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raindance

It still won't matter on small servers like Haven or Nemon. Adrian, you need to stop thinking in terms of how it will look like on Ra, because implementing the same update you intend for Ra on Haven will be a total failure, just like the past invasions and warmaster updates are right now.

The game mechanics are universal, they cannot be tapered to each individual server. Put yourself in his shoes for a moment, now would you design it for a server where 40 might play or for a server where 100 are playing? The game needs a system overall to fulfill every aspect, but we know it's just not possible.

They are thinking and making changes and asking for the community input. I don't think being cynical and negative will help anyone. The game needs freshness and ideas to grow while still being a numbers game, I don't think you can hide from that.

10-01-2014, 09:28 AM	#23
Adrian NGD·Studios Join Date: May 2007 Location: Wien, Österreich Posts: 2,859	Hi everyone! We're still in a private development stage. This time, we have to change a million of things in the system so in this case the private development will take a bit longer. While we're at it, we need some specific feedback: How important do you think it would be to modify the paths from the buildings (castles and forts) to the realm walls? Currently some (or most) of them are boringly plain. Next Invasions system will make a lot of open field wars to happen there, so, would it be wiser to let them open as most of them are now or modify the terrain so they are a bit more difficult to pass through them or see in the distance? To make it clearer, I'll give an example: Alsius has captured Samal and Shaanarid. The army in Samal gets the Relic and decides to go to Ignis' realm wall. The path to get there is almost plain with the exception of some rocks. If an army from Ignis comes this is great for an open field war but rather monotonous and the sense of danger is rather non-existent. If we put some obstacles, places where an army could hide and make an ambush. This could also allow the attacking army to hesitate to go through them or not, take longer paths or just dare to take the risk, raising the strategy choices. What do you think? __________________

10-01-2014, 03:09 PM	#29
NaturalBornKiller Apprentice Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Waste Lands Posts: 75	Dudes... it's an RvR... of course numbers matters... it matters now and it ever will __________________ The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.

09-04-2014, 01:07 AM	#21
Fiver Apprentice Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 50	I do like all the effort NGD has made towards COR lately, whatever they do is proactive and we can't fault them for that. I'd like to run past everyone a mechanic that would add some interesting wrinkles to invasion. Fog of war: once any gate becomes vulnerable to invasion all realm chat for each realm ends at your bridges. only banner communication or group/clan chat would work after the bridge. This would help the defending realm and force some amount of realm cohesion on the invading realm.

10-01-2014, 01:40 PM	#25
Loque Master Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 347	Firstly, I am a bit skeptic about the one relic needed to invoke an invasion thing. Let me give an example. Ignis has taken Imperia and Alsius is fighting for the relic there. Now Syrtis take Trelleborg and starts the timer on that relic. Now what should Alsius do? Keep fighting for the Imperia relic or ignore that and go Trelleborg? And going either way brings them more closer to invasion as either Syrtis or Ignis could go wall with the relic, Syrtis being closer to it due to Trelleborg being very near to wall. And in the case when invasion does happen, what next? Alsius will be at wall, invasion ends, but Ignis still has Imperia, they can go to wall again or Syrtis can take Trelleborg/Aggersborg again and the invasion repeats. Where is the end to this? It might keep on happening. Also keep in the mind about the distances between the farthest forts. (Replace any realm with any fort) Secondly, a quick brainstorm idea would be of control points. Each realm would have 3 control points along the way to the gate which would be needed to be acquired with a relic to start a link/chain towards the gate to invoke the invasion. For example, Along with terrain modifications this could bring some interesting tactics. The defenders could fight for the control of the points even after losing relics from the forts. Some timer could be set to seige or defend the points, like you cannot of course expect players to be fighting for the points all the time. The gate should be the end result. Just some ideas, could be a baseline for further discussion.