Version 1.0.8's impact on Warriors

[King_Of_Angmar]

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

I'll simplify my original post:

The movement of your char, pretty much canceling everything, destroys the flow of combat with all classes.

+1 couldn't have said it better myself.

I also really don't understand the added cooldown to trolls skin, was it really so overpowered? I already knew many knights who didn't use it since they thought 450 hp wasn't worth it. I used it because I could keep it perma-buffed and with good defense 450 can last a while. Now that I can't just have it on the whole time I'm beginning to think it has lost its use, another skill in vanguard down the drain.

[ZericOfGa]

Originally Posted by chilko

hello guys,

Some of the first posts of this thread where very interesting as they where a profound analysis on how you feel about the system and what you think are the reasons behind that.

As we said, new problems may arise with this new system and we would only find out about that playing in real conditions.

Overall, after playing for two days and witnessing a lot of encounters in game we feel that we are on the right track but still need to make adjustments and maybe revise some things with the warriors.

if there was something fun about playing a warrior before (as you say) is not something that want/ed to take away

lets try to keep this thread to the level of the first few posts and not make it a +1 i hate the update too thread so we can use this to help us find those things that may improve the game.

Thanks for posting

This update, in my opinion, only helped warriors in one way, truly: archers have to stop to shoot, and do less damage. None of the nerfs/improvements done to warriors were beneficial.

I am not a knight who uses troll skin, but I am unsure as to how the nerf helps warriors.

The things that need to be fixed/changed/improved in order to make warriors enjoyable are this:

1. Make movement more fluid, and I know the "false hits" are a planned thing, but seeing my hammer/axe/spear swing and not do anything makes me thing bug, not implemented feature. It is incredibly annoying.



2. The passive resists in the weapon trees are not fully resisting as they should be. The 20% resist does more like 10% resist, which means at level 4, they are almost useless. It seems like those values could easily be reset/changed to work better. This is also crucial because of the shields tree not working, most knights have chosen a resistance setup.



3. Make block work! With buffs I can have a 128 block chance and not block a single hit in an entire fort war. I am not about to lead a group of people into war if I know the chances of me blocking hits on the way there are 1 in 1 million. The server does not seem to be calculating them in any way.


Note: protector does work. At level 5 it is insane. If precise block and the passive block were given the values used in a level 3 Protector, it would be worth using again.



4. Spells like Shield Bash are virtually impossible to cast. If this was given an instant cast it would be useful again. Because it is not a spell that stops you in order to use it, you try to cast and stop for just a second, but the movement cancels it. I think in over 20 attempts I have been able to use it once. I had to stop, stand still, cast it, then move as it casted.



5. Position lag is incredibly high. I saw a something like this today:

<---Wolf facing this way______10 meters_______Barb facing this way ---> hitting him

I can virtually stand inside a person without hitting them at all.

Also, I saw Midou Ban on a wall standing next to an enemy archer, he was standing there doing....nothing. He couldnt attack, and there was no error like "not facing your enemy" or "out of range". This must be fixed for warriors to be enjoyable again.



I am almost disgusted to the point where I want to hang up my knight helmet and find another class. Playing him is boring now because I am a warrior with a role I cannot play due to nerfs and bugs. Please help

[Brother-brian]

It is frustrating to wait so long for troll skin to CD. I dont generally go into a battle without it, and waiting for such a long cd keeps my knight out of the fight longer.

Shield bash doesnt seem to cast at all for me either.

Sometimes, I cannot seem to maintain a lock on an enemy in a fort battle. When i click on him, by the time i get into range, he is already somehow de-selected. I have tested this numerous times, sometimes without even trying to hit, and enemy goes de-selected all by itself. Not all the time though.

[Seher]

Originally Posted by King_Of_Angmar

I also really don't understand the added cooldown to trolls skin, was it really so overpowered?

That's one of the best decisions they've made so far, imho. Reason: No perma-buffing, and they reacted with a very small adjustment.

Originally Posted by King_Of_Angmar

I already knew many knights who didn't use it since they thought 450 hp wasn't worth it. I used it because I could keep it perma-buffed and with good defense 450 can last a while. Now that I can't just have it on the whole time I'm beginning to think it has lost its use, another skill in vanguard down the drain.

Next step would be to boost the effect a bit (!). Maybe increase it to 600 hp... This is called balance! (Balance <----> Nerfnerfnerfnerf )

[gluffs]

Originally Posted by ZericOfGa

Thanks for posting
4. Spells like Shield Bash are virtually impossible to cast. If this was given an instant cast it would be useful again. Because it is not a spell that stops you in order to use it, you try to cast and stop for just a second, but the movement cancels it. I think in over 20 attempts I have been able to use it once. I had to stop, stand still, cast it, then move as it casted.

The main problem whit not being able to get shield bash off is that there is
a delay before skills launch after pressing the button. Like it is now it is hard
to even get off a insta skill in combat after a normal hit. So even if shield
bash were instant it would still be very hard to pull off. In war now i am
having a hard time just to get Kick/feint to go off. I feel like a keyboard
abuser when i slam the key like a freaking maniac.


Suggestion For fixing this:

When you klick a spell it cancels normal hit and skill starts directly, no
delays no nothing. Then instants would really be instant and shield bash etc
would go off more smoothly.


This problem is most irritating at fort door where you bang on the door.
When the barbs/locks come out for areas you need to act quickly to
knock/cancel spell. But whit the delays i loose about 1s off time before
anything happens. And 1s is alot when you need to knock or brainpierce.

I hope something will be done about this, because i really love playing my
knight, but the last days after update is more frustration then fun due to the
fact that im about to destroy my keyboard because off the long time it takes
for getting off a skill, and sometimes nothing happens att all.

This delay i have on my knight dont seem to be on my hunter, i use my
hunter alot for grinding and after a normal hit i can launch skills directly
whitout delays. So the same thing should be possible on warriors aswell.

[Znurre]

Originally Posted by chilko

hello guys,

Some of the first posts of this thread where very interesting as they where a profound analysis on how you feel about the system and what you think are the reasons behind that.

As we said, new problems may arise with this new system and we would only find out about that playing in real conditions.

Overall, after playing for two days and witnessing a lot of encounters in game we feel that we are on the right track but still need to make adjustments and maybe revise some things with the warriors.

if there was something fun about playing a warrior before (as you say) is not something that want/ed to take away

lets try to keep this thread to the level of the first few posts and not make it a +1 i hate the update too thread so we can use this to help us find those things that may improve the game.

A movie tells more than 1000 images, so here you go.
Dedicated to you and the balance team:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZLQgQagif8

So, what is my proposal to change this situation?
I am not yet sure wether these suggestions should apply for all classes, or only for warriors... but here you go:

• Make normal hits count as skills, letting global cooldown also affect them and showcasing when it's possible to cast/hit again using the indicators added in 1.0.8
• Make +attackspeed% and weapon speed affect the global cooldown
• Make it possible to queue skills for up to 2 seconds and maybe also display this queue somewhere in the UI is possible
• When the global cooldown is ready, next skill in the queue will be casted immediately!
  No further delays at all. If there is no skill in the queue, a normal hit "skill" will be "casted" instead.
• Add an option to disable movement cancelling skill casting
• Fix the bug where skills can sometimes not be casted during movement (as seen in the video)
• Fix the "phantom hits" (client side only hits)
• Allow skills with 0.5 or less casting time (not including +cast speed% bonuses) to be casted during movement.

With these changes, I am sure gameplay for warriors would clearly change to the better.
Feel free to comment.

CORRECTION: In the video, I am only using lvl 4 TFB (Amun config).
Thanks for pointing it out Matt.

[Arafails]

Indeed I could put my thumb on what was bugging me about playing barb since the update, but couldn't work out how to express it. That video is just perfect however.
The slower the weapon, it seems, the more pronounced the effect. I know I should have similar problems on my warlock, but I just hadn't noticed them.... Fast 25 staff have anything to do with that?

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by Arafails

Indeed I could put my thumb on what was bugging me about playing barb since the update, but couldn't work out how to express it. That video is just perfect however.
The slower the weapon, it seems, the more pronounced the effect. I know I should have similar problems on my warlock, but I just hadn't noticed them.... Fast 25 staff have anything to do with that?

I think it has to to with the different normal hits ranged vs melee. Ranged has to wait before each hit (aiming time)

Melee has a delay after each hit, the normal itself should get out instant, however that seems to be bugged - maybe its connected to phantom hits - delay gets applied there maybe too even when you dont successfully hit?

I fully support the idea of scaling gcd with attackspeed - the new system allows tweaking the scaling values itself. Weapon speed could have different modifiers, +attackspeed gear and spells can get applied on top of that, the scaling itself can be balanced by putting in fixed value + a value that can scale with mentioned factors = gcd.

[Kyrottimus]

Originally Posted by Znurre

A movie tells more than 1000 images, so here you go.
Dedicated to you and the balance team:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZLQgQagif8

So, what is my proposal to change this situation?
I am not yet sure wether these suggestions should apply for all classes, or only for warriors... but here you go:

• Make normal hits count as skills, letting global cooldown also affect them and showcasing when it's possible to cast/hit again using the indicators added in 1.0.8
• Make +attackspeed% and weapon speed affect the global cooldown
• Make it possible to queue skills for up to 2 seconds and maybe also display this queue somewhere in the UI is possible
• When the global cooldown is ready, next skill in the queue will be casted immediately!
  No further delays at all. If there is no skill in the queue, a normal hit "skill" will be "casted" instead.
• Add an option to disable movement cancelling skill casting
• Fix the bug where skills can sometimes not be casted during movement (as seen in the video)
• Fix the "phantom hits" (client side only hits)
• Allow skills with 0.5 or less casting time (not including +cast speed% bonuses) to be casted during movement.

With these changes, I am sure gameplay for warriors would clearly change to the better.
Feel free to comment.

CORRECTION: In the video, I am only using lvl 4 TFB (Amun config).
Thanks for pointing it out Matt.

+1

(+1 to gluffs post as well)


Here's a further elaboration on how I see it:

Things that were perfectly fine in1.0.7 for warriors that are now "broken" in 1.0.8:

*Animations: All new warrior animations are lame and they are not in sync with actual attack or sound effects.

*Phantom-swings: Maybe intended, maybe not. I personally think this is a result of the screwed up animations + GCD. Still, VERY annoying and I say get rid of them because with the positioning problems still there, it really makes it way worse and it delays your actual attack timers.

*Transitioning between normals and spells/buffs is WAY too slow and cumbersome

*Spells like Roar, Howl, Shield Bash, etc. are not practical at all to use anymore

*Weapon speed no longer seems to dictate spell-piggybacking after a normal attack

*Movement canceling spells/buffs really throws warrior combat "flow" out the window.

[S_N_I_P_E_R]

(Pre 1.08) I brought a low level fast rapier so that I could buff my barb alot faster as I use a vslow/slow weapon most of the time, in fact I could fully buff in the time it took a fellow barb to cast 2 buffs. Well now due to global CD I can buff as fast regardless of weapon speed, so my already poor barb has wasted gold on a weapon that is no longer worth using