Why classes become overpowered

[Envy]

If you remove luck, say good bye to evade chance, block chance, miss chance, critical hits, int effecting resist chance... It just can't happen.

You invest points into these chance skills, that's he whole point. If they do not work, it's your fault for taking the chance instead of putting the points into sure fire skills. If they do, the risk paid off.

[magnet]

Originally Posted by Signatus

Now, Marks VS Barb, both lvl 50 it's 50% for each when well played... actually goes more for barb side if Marks cast DS first and think that can regain range with escapist running through the Barb (I experienced this 1st hand, and saw it happen, and got similar opinions from marks 50). Of course that if a Marks resist/evade a particular move he gets the upper hand but the good thing about barbs is... 1000+ normal dmg... when not evaded. I've personally seen a Marks 50 getting beaten repeatedly by a Barb 6 lvls below at the Arena... naturally the set used by the Marks wasn't the best for the situation and after it was corrected he was able to take the Barb out.

Marks Vs Knights, I was 8 lvls below and *naturally* I lost, but nor before taking the marks down to 1/4 below hp. On the other hand a lvl after I was able to beat a lvl 50 marks without full hp (it was his call not mine!) on something pretty much like pvp (I was running after him and when he got enough distance he casted the defenses and tried to regain range running through me... bad call). But more often then I wished I get "You killed /yourself" after an ethereal...

Marks Vs Mages I have no idea.

Marks Vs Hunters... short fast for the start and short medium to finish, naturally the hunter will need to leave the camu "inside" him or else he will be utterly pawned, never had (much) problems with them as long as they had the same lvl as me (but yes, I died enough times... well not quite, I ran before dying)... the worst is... now there aren't much of them on WZ below 50...

But yes, Marks are a very good class... specially because they kill me often!

As I said, Warriors are trickier. But a Marks rarely plays alone, this is not a solo game except for Hunters. The only problem with Warriors is stopping them. Well I cast Lightning arrow first then I have allies stop them... Disable limb, whatever works in Unstoppable if needed, or Mind Squasher... I'm not saying Marks is the God class that kills all in PvP. Indeed it's not the very best against Warriors (then again, Warriors don't hit me very hard with the Marks, when they can hit me at all -- try Dodge lv 5, it's better than SotW). No, Marks isnt the God class, but it's damn close.

Knights are hard for Marks on 1v1, but Knights are hard for all on 1vs1 except Hunters (very patient Hunters), this is not specific to Marks... Barbarian with Unstoppable are now themselves harder than Knights, but imho this is Warrior unbalance right now (knights need better resistance, Barbs have it better and it's really stupid).

And for Hunter really they're easy if they have pets. You just need to use DS+Dot, run from pet, etc. And keep buffs up. Without pets, they're tricky because they have high defence too, but you hit harder so.. Dead too.

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

erm...cast wind wall and the marks will miss death sentence most probably...and if not, go near to the marks and death sentence is useless, at least when no other ranged classes are attacking you. And you want to protect yourself from taking high damage? You can have 1000 hp every 40 sec (energy barrier), you can cast protection dome. Once you lost hp or mana you can steal it from your enemy.
I agree, that when a marks sees a mage first the mage will have a bad time when the marks casts burst of wind at long range. But when someone sees another one first the agressor has always an advantage, no matter which class vs. which class.

Once and for all, I don't think I need any advice on my Warlock, thanks. I have been using Wind Wall lv 5 since the very hour the server went on after the very patch of the very spell. Thanks. I also knew about DS limitations before most Marks actually did (or they were stupid enough not to try to get their range back with Escapist).

It all doesn't matter if my fucking spells don't hit the Marks. Try playing Marks with a fully Evasive setup and sacrifice a bit of attack. You'll see what resists and evades mean. Don't forget to read your log....

On being the first one to attack and having the initiative, of course, well not being surprised is a part of this game. Always being on guard...

Originally Posted by e30ernest

Agreed. A whole new issue on balance will appear if you remove luck. Warlocks will need definite toning down of their spells.

The very same spells that deal LESS dmg than Marks, and no regular hits while Marksmen are ~400-600? You gotta be kidding me, Warlock obsession maybe?

Oh, Conjurers are sad because Warlocks go through Steel Skin and have Dizzying spells, and are the only truly effective class against Conjurers, but that's game design. And I play Conju lv 50.

Originally Posted by Gravat

If you remove luck, say good bye to evade chance, block chance, miss chance, critical hits, int effecting resist chance... It just can't happen.

You invest points into these chance skills, that's he whole point. If they do not work, it's your fault for taking the chance instead of putting the points into sure fire skills. If they do, the risk paid off.

Those skills are too easy to acquire for Archers because they're all in the same tree. Put them in different trees around level 15 and it will be OK.
Base chance involvement should be back to before when Warlocks didn't evade one attack out of 3 and Barbarians "resisted" (wtf)....

[fluffy_muffin]

Originally Posted by magnet

[...]
Oh, Conjurers are sad because Warlocks go through Steel Skin and have Dizzying spells, and are the only truly effective class against Conjurers, but that's game design. And I play Conju lv 50.

I am confused , so keeping conj dizzy by warlock and possibility to hit him thru steel skin is ok but confuse is not? I got it right?

[e30G]

Originally Posted by magnet

The very same spells that deal LESS dmg than Marks, and no regular hits while Marksmen are ~400-600? You gotta be kidding me, Warlock obsession maybe?

I'm pointing out that the dizzy, knock and cannot attack spells of a warlock will make them really strong compared to everyone else when there is no resist or evade chance. Fights will definitely be shorter and the winner will be the one who dizzies/knocks first or who can keep the other dizzy or on the floor the longest.

Originally Posted by magnet

Oh, Conjurers are sad because Warlocks go through Steel Skin and have Dizzying spells, and are the only truly effective class against Conjurers, but that's game design. And I play Conju lv 50.

I never complained against warlocks as a conjurer. I can resist a lot of their spells with Protection Dome.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

without luck it is who makes the first hit wins...

when I imagine every spell would realy hit me that a warlock casts on me...oh well, I would be dead meat, as soon as the warlock brings meteor on me. On the other side...when I can dizzy the warlock first, death sentence, serpent bite, winter stroke, stun fist, ambush...running out of range.


When all the spells would hit it would be boring I think....every fight would be quite the same

Not really, you'd just have to be smarter. Not luckier

[e30G]

Originally Posted by Angelwinged_Devil

Not really, you'd just have to be smarter. Not luckier

Or have a faster PC and connection. :P

[CumeriTarenes]

Originally Posted by magnet

Once and for all, I don't think I need any advice on my Warlock, thanks. I have been using Wind Wall lv 5 since the very hour the server went on after the very patch of the very spell. Thanks. I also knew about DS limitations before most Marks actually did (or they were stupid enough not to try to get their range back with Escapist).

erm...where is your problem? You said a battle is like this:" The marks hits the warlock and all attacks from the warlock will be missed"

I just pointed out that it is not like that, that a battle can be in another way too. If you take it as an personal advice it is your fault.

Originally Posted by magnet

It all doesn't matter if my fucking spells don't hit the Marks. Try playing Marks with a fully Evasive setup and sacrifice a bit of attack. You'll see what resists and evades mean. Don't forget to read your log....

and it all doesn't matter if the warlock blocks all my spells due to wind wall and my spells do not that much damage due to enery barrier and protection dome. I play an almost full evasive marksman, as most do. But, how many warlocks are playing full evasive?
I don't see that much resistst/evades on myself, not that much more than my attacks miss on other classes. Sure, I evade/resist more than other classes which don't use/don't have evade/resist/blocking spells, but this is how it should be since I spend power points and mana for it.

Originally Posted by magnet

The very same spells that deal LESS dmg than Marks, and no regular hits while Marksmen are ~400-600? You gotta be kidding me, Warlock obsession maybe?

regular hits from marksmen are 400 to 600? When you use a slow bow with recharged arrows maybe...but you are slow in reacting with a slow weapon, you need mana for reecharged arrows and you need to put points into recharged arrows. And....when the warlock uses protection dome the damage is much less.

Originally Posted by magnet

Those skills are too easy to acquire for Archers because they're all in the same tree. Put them in different trees around level 15 and it will be OK.
Base chance involvement should be back to before when Warlocks didn't evade one attack out of 3 and Barbarians "resisted" (wtf)....

Yes, I agree, archers evasion spells are a bit too easy to acquire. But...which other class has to spend points in a tree just for defencive skills, escpecially when which other offensive class?

[CumeriTarenes]

Originally Posted by Angelwinged_Devil

Not really, you'd just have to be smarter. Not luckier

You don't like luck in a game? Play chess.

Without luck it is who makes the oponent dizzy first, and who keeps the enemy dizzy/knock/cannot attack. And since warlocks are having most of these kind of spells it gives them an advantage

[ncvr]

Just pointing a few things out.
1) Protection dome...it's meant to be an aura that benefits the group. -25% movement speed is harsh - warlocks are slow enough already...and it does not reduce the dmg you do, it gives up to 50% chance to resist spells. But then again, who uses maxed SM other than DM and some igneans...who uses SM at all actually? Oh, and it's duration 30 cooldown 120.

2) Wind Wall is duration 30 cooldown 60, unlike spell elude. Sure, it's a good spell, but it also only works if your opponent is more than 4m away from you. I will admit that it has saved my warlock's life many times though, but I stopped using it.

3) EB is a useful spell, but one powerful DoT from any class other than warriors and it's gone. Break Apart, tear apart, Lightning, Serpeant bite and Ethereal arrow and Throat Cutter even ignore it. Warriors just smash it in a few normal hits, no problems there. But a timely recasting of the spell in battle has saved my life many, many times as well.

[magnet]

Originally Posted by zielski

I am confused , so keeping conj dizzy by warlock and possibility to hit him thru steel skin is ok but confuse is not? I got it right?

As I already stated, Confuse would be OK if it hard Meteor's or Silence duration (even a bit longer actually). But of course you know that and omitted it because you're fundamentally dishonest. Nothing new under the sun.

Originally Posted by e30ernest

I'm pointing out that the dizzy, knock and cannot attack spells of a warlock will make them really strong compared to everyone else when there is no resist or evade chance. Fights will definitely be shorter and the winner will be the one who dizzies/knocks first or who can keep the other dizzy or on the floor the longest.

It was like that before and it was just fine -- for Warlocks as well as for everyone. My Knight suffers from evades just as much as the Warlock because I have to immobilize/knock down my opponents if I want to kill them. I need spells to go in.

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

and it all doesn't matter if the warlock blocks all my spells due to wind wall and my spells do not that much damage due to enery barrier and protection dome. I play an almost full evasive marksman, as most do. But, how many warlocks are playing full evasive?
I don't see that much resistst/evades on myself, not that much more than my attacks miss on other classes. Sure, I evade/resist more than other classes which don't use/don't have evade/resist/blocking spells, but this is how it should be since I spend power points and mana for it.

Do you put 5 in Acrobatic, 5 in Dodge, 5 in Spell Eludes, 5 in Cat Reflexes, get dex passives? Try it. you will be surprised.

Wind Wall lv5 is 25% cover for 30 seconds, cooldown 60. Spell Eludes lv5 is 30% resist power for 2 minutes. Quite the difference, no? But Spell Elude is just one layer, there's also Dodge and basic evades. And SotW.

regular hits from marksmen are 400 to 600? When you use a slow bow with recharged arrows maybe...but you are slow in reacting with a slow weapon, you need mana for reecharged arrows and you need to put points into recharged arrows. And....when the warlock uses protection dome the damage is much less.

Well use a Slow bow with recharged arrows like most Marks at war and switch when you need to cast spells! Isn't it what all Marks do? And there must be 5 warlocks in-game who use Protection Dome, and for your information it doesn't affect damage nor regular hits at all.

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

Yes, I agree, archers evasion spells are a bit too easy to acquire. But...which other class has to spend points in a tree just for defencive skills, escpecially when which other offensive class?

Well, Knights: two trees without damage and only defense (except 1 spell, shield bash), and that's the two Knights tree.

But there are only 3 classes and 6 subclasses in the game. I tell you, give Evasion to any class and they'll all use it. I'd use it rather than Vanguard, how fucked is that when Knights are supposed to be the tanks, and Vanguards the "survival" oriented spell tree?