"Foul play" - Page 3

Froste · 01-15-2009, 09:06 AM

It really wouldn't Sydonay, because if one ip number connects to one realm, a lot, but then you see it connecting to another realm, where it has a character that doesn't level, doesn't move around, it should be fairly obvious.

If a member of a family logs on a different realm, I would assume that they'd actually play the character. And especially if you see a character is 5 months old, and still level 1, and the same ip connects to another realm where the characters are actually played and levelled, again, the difference is night and day.

I never suggested a mass ban on same ip numbers, my idea was simply to flag those ip addresses and investigate the characters.

And I can add, if the level 1 character is logged onto more than a few times, again the pattern should be fairly obvious, especially if you check the timestamps and compare them with times when gates are vulnerable.

Angel_de_Combate · 01-15-2009, 10:19 AM

When exactly is a Dev going to make a comment on all this ? You know it would be kinda helpful, rather than everyone going over the same opinions and perspectives.

Nightchill · 01-15-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e30ernest

Look into patterns:

User logs into the ISP and gets an IP.
User logs into Regnum (IP logged)
User logs out and logs in to another account on another realm (IP logged)
User logs out and returns to original account (IP logged)
User refreshes ISP IP

Repeat the above. A pattern will appear because the user will need to log out before entering another account.

only one line in cmd/terminal can dump your current ip and get you a new one... hey, that's what I do for rapidshare, and it takes a second, and even if he has to reset the modem, you think someone would rather get caught then changing his ip?

imo, every client should have a unique 'mark' (or whatever it's called) that is automatically assigned once the game connects to RO server and that 'mark' should be sent to the server along with username and password of one. that'd probably give the most precise info on multiple accounts / possible spying.

Miraculix · 01-15-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opt1k

only one line in cmd/terminal can dump your current ip and get you a new one... hey, that's what I do for rapidshare, and it takes a second, and even if he has to reset the modem, you think someone would rather get caught then changing his ip?

imo, every client should have a unique 'mark' (or whatever it's called) that is automatically assigned once the game connects to RO server and that 'mark' should be sent to the server along with username and password of one. that'd probably give the most precise info on multiple accounts / possible spying.

MAC address? ^^

_dracus_ · 01-15-2009, 02:27 PM

I think NGD has a way to identify each machine. Some kind of "hostid" hides in the client if I'm not making a mistake. Then it's quite easy to find who did what. I also think NGD bans accounts not IP address.

Nightchill · 01-15-2009, 02:28 PM

^^yeah, why not? seems like the best way to me.

Torin_Ironfist · 01-15-2009, 04:05 PM

Cookies :P

Syd_Vicious · 01-15-2009, 05:35 PM

I love where you guys are going with this, client id markers are the best way, but still doesn't take into account families. Some family members use the same pc.

IP is not a good way to go because of NAT. NAT allows multiple users to share the same IP. That is why I say going off of IP alone is a bad idea.

So a mix of client ID marker and game play patterns would be the best, imo. The IP part is unreliable and wouldn't determine a host computer, just what router was shared in most instances. MAC Addy would still boil it down to the router.

Just as an example I have 5 computers in my house behind 3 firewalls. My ADSL modem pulls my IP address that I connect to the internet with. It then pumps a fake private IP address to my router, my router then pumps a fake private address to all my computers. The only real IP address exists at my ADSL modem that is also acting like a router. So if on my 5 computers I have everyone playing Regnum and one person is a spy, only my one internet IP is listed.

So client markers is the only way to boil it down to a single computer.

Next logging out and logging into another account as already stated most of the user-base of RO has multiple accounts, so simply trying to track it through logs is going to be a full time auditing job in itself.

What they could implement as Froste was talking about could be a time limit for level 1, say one or two weeks would be fair, not much to rebuild if someone lost a lvl 1 character. While they are at it they could have a 60 day policy to delete unused accounts to better establish realm imbalance but that is just a side note.

Guys all I am saying is that I dont think NGD has the man power to devote to this issue as it would be as i said a full time auditing job. Even if they created an algorithm or script that looked for client marker and behavioral pattern (non-leveling level one characters) might be easier if their coding allowed it and if there was indeed a marker system in place - but they would have to develop it from scratch and take time away from game maintenance. Behavioral pattern algorithms (or heuristics that really on signatures patterns) would likely be a pain to get working right as well so it might do more harm than good at first. Plus that would be one more service running on servers that already lag when minimal ppl are on.

Easiest thing to do would be to delete the level 1 characters after a week or two, but it still wouldn't solve ppl just creating new characters and accounts.

-Paradox- · 01-19-2009, 02:29 PM

That whole switching thing with IP's is pointless. I guy in my clan can run two accounts at a single time. So he could spy with that while using his main. He doesn't as they are both Ignis accounts but it's that easy...

Froste · 01-19-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sydonay_Rex

So if on my 5 computers I have everyone playing Regnum and one person is a spy, only my one internet IP is listed.

Then 4 family members should beat the fifth, with spoons, until the fifth family member stops being a turd. (:

01-15-2009, 09:06 AM	#21
Froste Baron Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Svea Rike Posts: 814	It really wouldn't Sydonay, because if one ip number connects to one realm, a lot, but then you see it connecting to another realm, where it has a character that doesn't level, doesn't move around, it should be fairly obvious. If a member of a family logs on a different realm, I would assume that they'd actually play the character. And especially if you see a character is 5 months old, and still level 1, and the same ip connects to another realm where the characters are actually played and levelled, again, the difference is night and day. I never suggested a mass ban on same ip numbers, my idea was simply to flag those ip addresses and investigate the characters. And I can add, if the level 1 character is logged onto more than a few times, again the pattern should be fairly obvious, especially if you check the timestamps and compare them with times when gates are vulnerable. __________________ *Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines...* Last edited by Adrian; 01-15-2009 at 05:30 PM. Reason: Double post

01-15-2009, 02:27 PM	#25
_dracus_ Count Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toulouse Posts: 1,335	I think NGD has a way to identify each machine. Some kind of "hostid" hides in the client if I'm not making a mistake. Then it's quite easy to find who did what. I also think NGD bans accounts not IP address. __________________ « Thanks all, you are right I'm great with the barbarian ... for killing mobs. » -- Athena Stillwater

01-15-2009, 10:19 AM	#22
Angel_de_Combate Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 440	When exactly is a Dev going to make a comment on all this ? You know it would be kinda helpful, rather than everyone going over the same opinions and perspectives.

01-15-2009, 02:28 PM	#26
Nightchill Banned Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 433	^^yeah, why not? seems like the best way to me.

01-15-2009, 04:05 PM	#27
Torin_Ironfist Secondary account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome Posts: 212	Cookies :P

01-15-2009, 05:35 PM	#28
Syd_Vicious Initiate Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: The Desert, The Mountains, The Sky Posts: 152	I love where you guys are going with this, client id markers are the best way, but still doesn't take into account families. Some family members use the same pc. IP is not a good way to go because of NAT. NAT allows multiple users to share the same IP. That is why I say going off of IP alone is a bad idea. So a mix of client ID marker and game play patterns would be the best, imo. The IP part is unreliable and wouldn't determine a host computer, just what router was shared in most instances. MAC Addy would still boil it down to the router. Just as an example I have 5 computers in my house behind 3 firewalls. My ADSL modem pulls my IP address that I connect to the internet with. It then pumps a fake private IP address to my router, my router then pumps a fake private address to all my computers. The only real IP address exists at my ADSL modem that is also acting like a router. So if on my 5 computers I have everyone playing Regnum and one person is a spy, only my one internet IP is listed. So client markers is the only way to boil it down to a single computer. Next logging out and logging into another account as already stated most of the user-base of RO has multiple accounts, so simply trying to track it through logs is going to be a full time auditing job in itself. What they could implement as Froste was talking about could be a time limit for level 1, say one or two weeks would be fair, not much to rebuild if someone lost a lvl 1 character. While they are at it they could have a 60 day policy to delete unused accounts to better establish realm imbalance but that is just a side note. Guys all I am saying is that I dont think NGD has the man power to devote to this issue as it would be as i said a full time auditing job. Even if they created an algorithm or script that looked for client marker and behavioral pattern (non-leveling level one characters) might be easier if their coding allowed it and if there was indeed a marker system in place - but they would have to develop it from scratch and take time away from game maintenance. Behavioral pattern algorithms (or heuristics that really on signatures patterns) would likely be a pain to get working right as well so it might do more harm than good at first. Plus that would be one more service running on servers that already lag when minimal ppl are on. Easiest thing to do would be to delete the level 1 characters after a week or two, but it still wouldn't solve ppl just creating new characters and accounts.

01-19-2009, 02:29 PM	#29
-Paradox- Apprentice Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 82	That whole switching thing with IP's is pointless. I guy in my clan can run two accounts at a single time. So he could spy with that while using his main. He doesn't as they are both Ignis accounts but it's that easy...