Changes to the combat system - Page 3

Shiriki · 09-12-2009, 02:08 AM

I think the changes are completely ok=)
Looking forward to see them!

Comp · 09-12-2009, 03:04 AM

I think what you'll end up seeing is archers using ALOT more slowing skills...skills that have yet to be fully used by many.

I mean things like...
- Caltrops arrow
- Hinder
- Sticky Touch
- Full blown high lvl ensnares

As a hunter I'll more than likely switch to a controlling configuration since I'll shoot faster but my pet attack won't change. So if I make you slower, knock you down for longer then it may work out to my advantage.

I don't mind change and I won't speak out for or against the archer changes until I can actually see how they affect combat. I do know that warriors need something to get them back in the game.

Also, I highly doubt that this will hinder the killing effectiveness of hunters. This will; however, I think force hunters to choose a fighting style (forts or hunting). We shall see...

_Enio_ · 09-12-2009, 04:01 AM

let me look at this from the archer perspective one sec:

-normal hits get a cast time,which gets cancelled when we move.
-we get a gcd which is between all casts(normals & skills), piggyback is removed (that "bug" which i see as a feature).
-weapon speed changes to maintain the fast gameplay.

--------

Sad to see it change, i understand the technical ideas behind, but its a pretty big nerf of the vivid gameplay we got atm. Id appreciated a different change to "balance" ranged vs melee (allowing piggybacks, removing slowdown on hit, spell changes together with new hit-detection system-improvement, CD & manacost reductions) but its decided and we got to see how it works out.

I look forward to a test phase (soon).

I just hope the change doesnt affect the part of movement skill too much.

I consider that change much bigger then any strafing implementation or any other update we got till now - honestly, i dont feel good about those changes from reading the changelog.

_Enio_ · 09-12-2009, 05:08 AM

Piggyback- removal isnt really a balance-change.

The more i think about the more im disappointed.

Winds · 09-12-2009, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilko

We fixed a bug in which ranged classes didn’t have to wait until the end of the round of their weapon (depending on weapon’s speed) to launch a power (Some archers have been using this bug in order to do a power and a normal hit in the same round).
Ranged classes will have to stay still during an attack if the user moves the attack will be canceled

All in all the coming changes seem rather nice. We'll see how they turn out in practice. Still I'd like to comment these too things.

Removing "piggybacking" is a huge plus. Some could use it with ease, while others couldn't do it for an reason or another. I remember being able to piggy back the first hit while grinding my first char, but long long time I go i though it was removed. Untill lately discussing with someone else he said he does it with every hit. Still couldn't do it myself even if I tried. So this gave an huge advantage to those that used it and seriously I doubt anyone can think it was ment to be possible, so about time it get's removed. Great job NGD!

The second quoted thing I'm conserned about. I once tested WoW for few days on a free trial. They have this system where your spell cancels, if you move. That was like the most annoying thing ever, so please don't bring it here. Rather force the character still like you do with spell casting in it's current form. (What ever you do don't make it possible to cancel spell casting accidentially by pressing a movement key.)

But what I really want to say is: Keep up with the good work devs!

DkySven · 09-12-2009, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Enio_

Piggyback- removal isnt really a balance-change.

No, you're right, it isn't. It is bugfixing.

_Enio_ · 09-12-2009, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DkySven

No, you're right, it isn't. It is bugfixing.

Makin friends? Or trying to be funny?

Anyway:
The game ran 3 years unnoticed with a bug which removal changes archer gameplay by 180 degree.

I know it was more an effect of unfinished design from start, but you cant deny it became a much used and loved feature which added to tactics and skillful play. I pity to lose it since it removes a huge bit of micro-tactic without giving much new.

Well, first test - then decide whats worth it.

Heglin · 09-12-2009, 07:16 AM

Those changes looks great and might actually balance things a bit.

Now i just have to wait and see, when the changes come we'll see if there will be more warriors around than it is now.

On the piggyback thing: Yes it wasn't a problem in the past but some changes made it a problem.

Mellion · 09-12-2009, 07:27 AM

thx, ngd, I will have lots of spare time after that.

Global cooldown for powers and interruption of attacks because of moving made me stop playing WoW after 2 days trying it.

Titine · 09-12-2009, 07:30 AM

Great changes !
Instead of increasing attack speed for archers, you could just increase animation speed and wait a little bit between each attack. For instance the animation last half of the attack, and there is an aftercast that long half of the attack so that you still can move when you attack, but half of the time.

09-12-2009, 02:08 AM	#21
Shiriki Initiate Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: donde nadie me encuentre Posts: 122	I think the changes are completely ok=) Looking forward to see them! __________________ ...Shinken-barbarian-ignis ...Gaia is in my mind, and God is in my heart+

09-12-2009, 03:04 AM	#22
Comp Count Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Jippy's Mom's House Posts: 1,286	I think what you'll end up seeing is archers using ALOT more slowing skills...skills that have yet to be fully used by many. I mean things like... - Caltrops arrow - Hinder - Sticky Touch - Full blown high lvl ensnares As a hunter I'll more than likely switch to a controlling configuration since I'll shoot faster but my pet attack won't change. So if I make you slower, knock you down for longer then it may work out to my advantage. I don't mind change and I won't speak out for or against the archer changes until I can actually see how they affect combat. I do know that warriors need something to get them back in the game. Also, I highly doubt that this will hinder the killing effectiveness of hunters. This will; however, I think force hunters to choose a fighting style (forts or hunting). We shall see... __________________ Compost (60 Hunter) Alsius Compoundious (Dead and gone...)

09-12-2009, 04:01 AM	#23
_Enio_ Marquis Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany Posts: 1,843	let me look at this from the archer perspective one sec: -normal hits get a cast time,which gets cancelled when we move. -we get a gcd which is between all casts(normals & skills), piggyback is removed (that "bug" which i see as a feature). -weapon speed changes to maintain the fast gameplay. -------- Sad to see it change, i understand the technical ideas behind, but its a pretty big nerf of the vivid gameplay we got atm. Id appreciated a different change to "balance" ranged vs melee (allowing piggybacks, removing slowdown on hit, spell changes together with new hit-detection system-improvement, CD & manacost reductions) but its decided and we got to see how it works out. I look forward to a test phase (soon). I just hope the change doesnt affect the part of movement skill too much. I consider that change much bigger then any strafing implementation or any other update we got till now - honestly, i dont feel good about those changes from reading the changelog. __________________ Fix the Marksman subclass: Suggestion

09-12-2009, 05:08 AM	#24
_Enio_ Marquis Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany Posts: 1,843	Piggyback- removal isnt really a balance-change. The more i think about the more im disappointed. __________________ Fix the Marksman subclass: Suggestion

09-12-2009, 07:16 AM	#28
Heglin Initiate Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 136	Those changes looks great and might actually balance things a bit. Now i just have to wait and see, when the changes come we'll see if there will be more warriors around than it is now. On the piggyback thing: Yes it wasn't a problem in the past but some changes made it a problem. __________________ Heglin lvl 55 Dwarf Knight Hewdir lvl 50 Nordo Marksman Hegrulun lvl 60 Utghar Conjurer Heglina lvl 44 Warlock Smaerta Och Lidande lvl 60 Dwarf Hunter

09-12-2009, 07:27 AM	#29
Mellion Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Germany Posts: 288	thx, ngd, I will have lots of spare time after that. Global cooldown for powers and interruption of attacks because of moving made me stop playing WoW after 2 days trying it. Last edited by Mellion; 09-12-2009 at 07:50 AM.

09-12-2009, 07:30 AM	#30
Titine Pledge Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14	Great changes ! Instead of increasing attack speed for archers, you could just increase animation speed and wait a little bit between each attack. For instance the animation last half of the attack, and there is an aftercast that long half of the attack so that you still can move when you attack, but half of the time.