Need some help with a paper

[mr_scsi]

Originally Posted by Syd_Vicious

1. Windows is for the masses so using a Linux system is not the best choice [rephrased from answer 4]

Windows has been marketed to the masses. Windows was first to the masses. Windows has a strangle hold on the masses. They, M$, have done such a superb marketing snow job backed up by jack booted thug tactics on the system builders for years that they have become the defacto standard. Everything they have done to date is about one thing and one thing only, removing choice.

Choosing linux means an education in what is really going on with your computer. Many people don't even understand what the "OS" is much less where to draw the line between the os and an application. Its far too easy to buy the box off the shelf, plug it in, and start surfing the pr0n.

Where is the choice in that? Until the monopoly is broken and a side by side option is there on that shelf, you can't even talk about a choice.

My favourite pre linux convert question- "can I run my windows on that?"

2. Windows has minimal problems and maximum compatibility [from answer 7]

Talk to anyone that has their windows computer plugged into the internet for more than 30 seconds. They now have a virus/trojan/spy/scare ware on their system. How is that minimal problem? I will agree that windows is maximum compatible with ALL the known viruses. Don't get me wrong, linux viruses are just a matter of time. When there is choice, and money to be gained by doing it, they will appear.

3. Apple systems are over priced items for the rich [rephrased from answer 8]

I'll conceded this point, but I'm sure there's a fanboi out there somewhere that has a few points for discussion.

Apple just has a slicker marketing department than M$. Steve Jobs' unrelenting drive for perfection keeps the mac o' philes hooked and perfection is expensive, whether its perceived or real.

4. Few people care about developing games for Linux [from answer 8]

This, unfortunately is the case for now. I think there are many developers of games (and other software) that would like to code for linux. The problem for now is $$. No matter what platform, at the end of the day, programmers have to eat. Linux is based on an opensource model and to many that means free (to them), but nothing is free.

Developers need a client base that are willing to part with money. For some that's a large software company that parts with their money in the form of a paycheck, and for a lucky few, that means a client base that is willing to pay them directly for their work. Neither of those use the word free.

I think that once the user base for linux increases, the willingness to pay for good software will too. This is good on more than one front since OSS will always be a part of the linux culture (sorry M$ you've already lost that battle) this promotes competition. Paid software will have to compete alongside the free stuff and hopefully the best of all will bubble to the top.



wth, did I seriously just spew all that???

[KKharzov]

Originally Posted by Syd_Vicious

1. Windows is for the masses so using a Linux system is not the best choice [rephrased from answer 4]
Yes. Since Windows became the first mainstream OS it's only logical that it is in the position it is now. However as time will tell us Microsoft products over time have become less and less innovative. Why do people continue to use Windows? Because the fact is that in most cases (Especially in places [Less Economically Developed Countries] where people have only begun to use computer technology) Windows is shoved down the throats of computer users. Schools use Windows, Offices use Windows, Public Service computers use Windows, and the list goes on. When someone see's a foreign OS it puts them in a a very uncomfortable condition. Hence why most Linux users are people that know their way around a computer.
2. Windows has minimal problems and maximum compatibility [from answer 7]
I'm not sure about problems. There still exists the massive problem of .exe files and leaving Windows systems open to virus attacks. However you need to realize people that make Anti-Virus software make millions from this. Compatibility yes, there is a sheer amount of programs used for educational purposes, work purposes, and in order to have the easiest method of working with other people it's generally recommended to be working with the same OS.
3. Apple systems are over priced items for the rich [rephrased from answer 8]
For sure. Apple claims their products are "revolutionary" when in reality for the same price you buy an Apple product you could buy an equal product of 3x better performance. This has been proven over and over, yet why do people continue to buy Apple products? Because they have created their own niche market, and have their own target consumers. Mainly people that like to buy fancy things and have no knowledge whatsoever about what they are buying. They look pretty, but they are crap. Apple tries to hard to be different, but they just fail at it so hard. (e.g. lulzy mouses with a single click button)
4. Few people care about developing games for Linux [from answer 8]
That isn't true imo, what I mean is that developers would like to develop games, but there is no market for them to profit from it, after all $$$$ = profit. There are many people who care about such a thing. The problem is that Linux still isn't as mainstream of a product, apart from that there are many separate builds of Linux. If you would allow for the comparison, Windows is like the Catholic Church, a single dominating product, while Linux is like the Protestant Church. Free, yet split into thousands of tiny churches (builds). Even if a big company like EA for example started to make all their games for Linux and Windows, what would the impact be? Minimal. When Linux falls into the mainstream on an equal level with Windows, then people will begin to make software for it, but more importantly there will be a market to buy those products.

Also if you're looking for a diehard Apple fanboy go find Hidra. I'm sure he/she/it will give you a proper discussion on how wondrous Apple products are.

[Znurre]

Originally Posted by KKharzov

That isn't true imo, what I mean is that developers would like to develop games, but there is no market for them to profit from it, after all $$$$ = profit. There are many people who care about such a thing. The problem is that Linux still isn't as mainstream of a product, apart from that there are many separate builds of Linux. If you would allow for the comparison, Windows is like the Catholic Church, a single dominating product, while Linux is like the Protestant Church. Free, yet split into thousands of tiny churches (builds). Even if a big company like EA for example started to make all their games for Linux and Windows, what would the impact be? Minimal. When Linux falls into the mainstream on an equal level with Windows, then people will begin to make software for it, but more importantly there will be a market to buy those products..

However, what many people don't take into consideration is that you get get a lot for free by using cross platform libraries.
If you decide to go with OpenGL and OpenAL, most barries have been overcome already, and then building on another platform is a pice of cake.

One of the good things with Linux being a small market, is that advertising is easy.
Make a Linux version of your game and you get free advertising on most Linux news aggregation sites - because it's a rare occurrence.

Personally, I think graphics engines like Unigine is the way to go.
It will allow people to create AAA games and easily port them to any platform, an easy way to earn some profit without any expenses, and this might boost Linux gaming too.

[Kianoni]

I'll reanswer this one..
Question 6: What operating system do you use to develop programs?

Linux because:
- faster build times (means a lot in bigger projects with more small files, etx3 beats fat/ntfs here by several minutes) which means faster round trips
- faster searches, same reason as above
- developing on same architecture as the target platform (linux servers)
- and I love the power of bash

[Gytha_Ogg]

Answers inline. Some of my answers differ depending on whether we're talking at home or at work, so I marked them. Use whichever you need:

Originally Posted by Syd_Vicious

Question 1: What is your primary operating system?
Home: Linux (Ubuntu)
Work: Windows 7
Question 2: What is the primary use of your computer?
Home: Communication: Email, facebook, IM, etc. (also gaming, sw dev)
Work: Software dev
Question 3: What operating system do you using for gaming?
Linux (occasionally Windows, if I'm booted into it anway)
Question 4: What operating system do you use for office work (typing documents, spreadsheets, etc..)?
Home: Linux
Work: Windows
Mostly OpenOffice, so OS independent, but some MS Word/Excel at work.
Question 5: What operating system do you use to manipulate computer graphics?
Don't do all that much of that, but Home:Linux Work:Windows
Gimp on both, so OS independent.
Question 6: What operating system do you use to develop programs?
Home: Linux
Work: Windows, Mac OS X
Question 7: What operating system do you use or use via 3rd party for a webserver?
Linux (my hosting provider uses Debian)
Question 8: What operating system implementation model do you perceive to be the future of computing?
Variety is the spice of life. (In other words, here comes a big ol' pile of wishy-washy
A lot of people, maybe a majority, will like the safety and convenience of an iOS-style walled garden, and devices that are more like appliances than general-purpose computers. Where these include phones, the carriers will want to have their say in what's allowed as well.
I do think there are enough people who will need more than what the appliances will deliver, and those who don't want to get permission to do what they want with the hardware they buy.
In short, I don't think any of these models will win out (completely) in the near future.

[Syd_Vicious]

Thanks for your responses so far. Here is your nugget Gytha:

I advise you to go on living solely to enrage those who are paying your annuities. It is the only pleasure I have left. - Voltaire

If you know of someone else who has a conflicting opinion and has not posted, please encourage them to do so.

So far it looks as though we are missing some talking points from the Mac community.

[Syd_Vicious]

23 pages turned in and a couple compliments from my English teacher. Thanks for your help guys.

[Nekoko]

Originally Posted by mr_scsi

Talk to anyone that has their windows computer plugged into the internet for more than 30 seconds. They now have a virus/trojan/spy/scare ware on their system. How is that minimal problem? I will agree that windows is maximum compatible with ALL the known viruses. Don't get me wrong, linux viruses are just a matter of time. When there is choice, and money to be gained by doing it, they will appear.

Also this is a tired and old fact, and only applies to Windows XP SP0 which as far as I know doesn't exist anymore. Any version of XP SP2 and above is safe to plug strait into the net, as are vista and windows 7.

Originally Posted by GythaOgg

...

Pretty much agree with you and the wishy washy More choices for everyone the better. I do like to pick on OSes even my own though ;p

Originally Posted by Syd_Vicious

23 pages turned in and a couple compliments from my English teacher. Thanks for your help guys.

Will you let us know the result ;p ? and good luck ^^

[Syd_Vicious]

Originally Posted by Nekoko

Also this is a tired and old fact, and only applies to Windows XP SP0 which as far as I know doesn't exist anymore. Any version of XP SP2 and above is safe to plug strait into the net, as are vista and windows 7.
...
Will you let us know the result ;p ? and good luck ^^

First bit about Win Xp isn't exactly true, just less likely than the original release to get hit. When I used to work in Kentucky on a 5,000 system intranet even XP SP3 would get hit as soon as plugged in due to damn bot net crap on systems retarded admins wouldn't patch regularly and keep their antivirus up to date. This only stopped when we installed advanced intrusion detection systems between organizational routers and then had the systems hardware mac black listed from the router ACL, for systems with out of date antivirus.

So I would say it is situational, a regular home user behind an ISP firewall will have different results. It is all about what variables are present and how much attack surface your organization/operating system has that will effect your level of security. Hell look at the black hat contests that have users that have created fuzzy logic vulnerability detection programs and see that every operating system is vulnerable without some form of protection.

I compare it to condoms, some people like poly-urethane and some like latex. Since more people use latex then poly-urethane of course you hear of more problems with latex condoms.

Second bit, yep I will let you guys know. For the end result of my paper I essentially said I will stick with Linux for almost everyday to day function, but use Windows in order to play games.

If you check Phoronix's May shootout between Win 7, Ubuntu 10.04, and Mac 10.6.3 - you see that Mac's performance really sucks right now Since they ran Ubuntu without a real time/low latency kernel I am pretty sure the results of Arch or Fedora running against Win 7 would have been damn close. I am also hoping that Gallium hurries its pace and doesn't solely focus on Radeon and that NVIDIA helps them out so it gets out of the nouveau realm (or at least enhances it greatly).

[Znurre]

Originally Posted by Syd_Vicious

I am pretty sure the results of Arch or Fedora running against Win 7 would have been damn close.

Actually better: http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/201...in-opengl.html
Congratulations btw!