Is the life being strangled out of hunters?

[DemonMonger]

Originally Posted by _Seinvan

I didn't say it's a useless class, it just needs a little fixing.

Hunters need to be more diverse compared to Marksmen. More support oriented imo. They should not necessarily be a "camo and kill" class like you've described, but supporting. I believe the issue is that hunter are made to be a CC machine atm; since Conjurers supply HP/mana (mainly) and knights supply defensive auras/buffs (mainly). There isn't much left except for crowd control.

Your "camo and kill" playstyle could work as a support role (picking off enemy weak points/conju killers) but where do pets fit into this if they die once camo'd?

Pets are not part of my equation.....

With the CC immunity skills we already have plus the warmaster banners, cc's as offensive and defensive options will become obsolete. The camo + repetition style will remain no matter how many nerfs it gets.

[_Seinvan]

While pets may not be part of your equation, they're a part of the hunter class. They're very similar to summons; great for grinding, terrible and serve no purpose in war.

So if CC isn't part of the hunters support role because of these crap beacons, is dealing damage then? They're not a damage class, but a support class. A hunter can kill an enemy who is attacking an ally in order to "support" them, a marksman can do this too. What you're saying is there's virtually no difference between a marksman and a hunter besides camo/shortbows (which some marksmen use anyway).. which needs to change imo.

[animalartist]

Originally Posted by Nekudotayim

I don't get it.

With hunters in fort wars, you can camo a group of players behind the enemy lines and then attack from behind, confusing the conjurers and maybe give some allies the possibility to cast their aes right in the mid of the enemy zerg, without them being able to avoid this, if they do not act fast enough. You also have a very good mass movement decrease skill. All these abilities being used in a very good teamplay can be very powerful.

However, I have never seen such tactics in fort wars regrettably.

I don't get it.

This is something that frustrates me too.
Many times i watch the enemy come waaaay out from forts and its an opportunity for exactly that ^^.
You cammo or stalker, sneak behind the group and caltrops the group or attack the main support mage and the allies - where are they? - usually gone or watching from a distance.

[Seher]

Originally Posted by DemonMonger

The only thing wrong with hunters is that dual shot is 1 second cast time instead of .5 like the longbow version of this skill.

It's the other way round, shield piercing should be 1 second casting time.

[Kitsuni]

The problem with the damage argument is that Marksmen don't exactly do godly damage either. It may seem like they do, but it is mostly players with very good gear doing high normal hits. All of their damage spells have high cooldowns (except for Arcanna, which is spammable but has high mana cost), and are affected by armor save for Ethereal arrow. The main power behind Marksmen is Recharged arrows, and their offensive capabilities from spells is actually rather limited in fort wars (where there is too many targets) and generally only shines in small group fights or PvP, and with my Hunter I am able to be just as effective in these fights because even though there's no high damage spells, Ensnaring arrow is one of the best and most spammable attacks in the game, and can be bolstered by Dirty fighting and Cold blood. It may seem like the damage is reduced by defenses alot, but save for Ethereal arrow Marksmen are really in the same situation.

If we improve Hunters' offensive capabilities than the Marksman lose their role as an attack class. But here is the problem: Marksmen are both the defensive and the attack class, which is wrong. Defenses and ability to survive (without the old-style SOTW, run away or camo tactics), is rather limited. Acrobatic and Evasive tactics are good, but no ranged Tricks have damage to pierce DI or Confuse - compared to Winter stroke and Burst of wind - and Strategic position has always been over the top in every incarnation. Personally, if I were to make any changes to the archer classes, it would be to move Strategic position to Hunters in exchange for Marksmen gaining a pure DPS skill that isn't dependant on 1) Boosting normal hits (which makes them too gear dependant), or 2) Losing range, which is the Marksman's forte.

I have played both classes at a high-level for a very long time, and my general feelings have developed such that I feel useless for attacking on Marksmen due to overuse of pylons and defenses, save for Ethereal arrow, which has a high CD, and on Hunter I feel useless at playing in any role that doesn't involve creeping around and relying purely on having some advantage to win. When brawling was removed from the game from all classes by nerf after nerf, the fun factor of the game dropped steeply. And Hunters were the masters of brawling. The problem is, once they all stopped fighting and starting ganking and running all of the time, sometimes in groups of 5 or more all with trolls, they pissed people off and got their class nerfed from several years of mass complaints. If you want to play your class in that role; it has not been harmed. You can still come out of camo on people with 100 hp and kill them. But if you want to play a Hunter as a brawling class who is always ready to put up a real fight, even if you might die, then strengthening the class is a possibility.

You can't have both, and most people made Hunters in order to have it that way, simple as that. Hence why things have gone the way they have gone for the class; because it was the choice of those who wanted to click an "I win" button, evidenced by how many of them have switched to playing Barbarians and Marksmen now. Those who remained faithful to the class are few and far between.

Originally Posted by Seher

It's the other way round, shield piercing should be 1 second casting time.

Add 100 more damage to it and then maybe you can increase the cast time.

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by Kitsunie

Add 100 more damage to it and then maybe you can increase the cast time.

Yea lets make ro even more static. We soon should thinks about making it round based.

[Seher]

Originally Posted by Kitsunie

Add 100 more damage to it and then maybe you can increase the cast time.

I think even dual shot needs some serious damage boost. :P And no Enio, this wouldn't make the game more static, it's static right now as you don't cast many spells and just wait shooting normal hits.
We need more spells with more damage (imagine a game in which just noobs use normal hits !!), and casting time is essential to prevent the old strafing + shooting.

[Alenox_I]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

Yea lets make ro even more static. We soon should thinks about making it round based.

Wonder why you keep trying Enio, they'll never underestand us...

[DemonMonger]

Originally Posted by Kitsunie

The problem with the damage argument is that Marksmen don't exactly do godly damage either. It may seem like they do, but it is mostly players with very good gear doing high normal hits. All of their damage spells have high cooldowns (except for Arcanna, which is spammable but has high mana cost), and are affected by armor save for Ethereal arrow. The main power behind Marksmen is Recharged arrows, and their offensive capabilities from spells is actually rather limited in fort wars (where there is too many targets) and generally only shines in small group fights or PvP, and with my Hunter I am able to be just as effective in these fights because even though there's no high damage spells, Ensnaring arrow is one of the best and most spammable attacks in the game, and can be bolstered by Dirty fighting and Cold blood. It may seem like the damage is reduced by defenses alot, but save for Ethereal arrow Marksmen are really in the same situation.

If we improve Hunters' offensive capabilities than the Marksman lose their role as an attack class. But here is the problem: Marksmen are both the defensive and the attack class, which is wrong. Defenses and ability to survive (without the old-style SOTW, run away or camo tactics), is rather limited. Acrobatic and Evasive tactics are good, but no ranged Tricks have damage to pierce DI or Confuse - compared to Winter stroke and Burst of wind - and Strategic position has always been over the top in every incarnation. Personally, if I were to make any changes to the archer classes, it would be to move Strategic position to Hunters in exchange for Marksmen gaining a pure DPS skill that isn't dependant on 1) Boosting normal hits (which makes them too gear dependant), or 2) Losing range, which is the Marksman's forte.

I have played both classes at a high-level for a very long time, and my general feelings have developed such that I feel useless for attacking on Marksmen due to overuse of pylons and defenses, save for Ethereal arrow, which has a high CD, and on Hunter I feel useless at playing in any role that doesn't involve creeping around and relying purely on having some advantage to win. When brawling was removed from the game from all classes by nerf after nerf, the fun factor of the game dropped steeply. And Hunters were the masters of brawling. The problem is, once they all stopped fighting and starting ganking and running all of the time, sometimes in groups of 5 or more all with trolls, they pissed people off and got their class nerfed from several years of mass complaints. If you want to play your class in that role; it has not been harmed. You can still come out of camo on people with 100 hp and kill them. But if you want to play a Hunter as a brawling class who is always ready to put up a real fight, even if you might die, then strengthening the class is a possibility.

You can't have both, and most people made Hunters in order to have it that way, simple as that. Hence why things have gone the way they have gone for the class; because it was the choice of those who wanted to click an "I win" button, evidenced by how many of them have switched to playing Barbarians and Marksmen now. Those who remained faithful to the class are few and far between.


Add 100 more damage to it and then maybe you can increase the cast time.

if a marksman uses shortbow and uses dual shot they will do a hell of alot more damage than any hunter for 110 mana, and 8 second cooldown. Imagine repetition shot with a marksman!

Coldblood + dirty fighting has very limited function in fort wars. When you finish buffing you are dead/knocked/frozed/dizzy and coldblood ends, the enemy runs and you cant hit them due to limited range.

[tarashunter]

@Kitsu....you told you played marksman....now.....explain me pls....how could you tell marksman skills have hight cd?

I can make you a better visual of marksman skills and his cd:

-arcana strike (your exception) 20 sec cd ;
-Etheral arrow 40 sec cd;
-BoW 40 sec cd;
-winter stroke 20 sec cd;
-serpent bite 60 sec cd;

All the others skills are areas,except for the skill like lethal strike and the other one in the same tree.

Do you still pretend to write in a discussion,that all the skill i wrote(and watch carefully,all are OFFENSIVE skill)have a long cd?

A marskman is able to use all the skill i mentioned before,all together without have to select what use and what not use,cause he have no mana problems like a barb.....
A barb must recast berserk every 40 sec,with a cost of mana,an hight cost....and with a penalty of -100% evade....
Recharged arrow (+40% dmg),is activable,cost low mana,casted 1 time every log on,or every resurrect,and then you are ready to shot.


After that,consider the power of BoW,and the power of the freeze,that allow you to move for 6 sec back your enemy to cast something like ambush,stunning fist,distract,or any other skill that don't allow your enemy to react.

All that,with the "low" dmg as you told......wanna do a test?
My marksman with normal gears against a your char,barb,knight,hunter,lock,conju,and then wanna tell me if i do low dmg?

Wanna see if marks is OP or not?
I'm speaking about common items equipped,but if you want i can use my hunter gears....that allow my marks to do 400/450 normal hit,the "OP" items..i'm able to kill a barb lvl 60 without allow him to get closer than 10 m from me....i can do the same on hunter,sure,but on hunter a barb take me like 60 sec to die,against my marks a barb die in 20/30 sec max.And my marks is still lvl 50...my hunter 60...and hit like a pussy with the same items that allow me to hit 400/450 when equipped on marks...

And for sure a marks with OP items is a serius problems in war zone,i think each faction in horus have 1 marks OP or more,so every warrior,mage hunter here know what i'm speaking about...

I don't get....why you still continue to say that marksman is not OP...well,if is only a my illusion is ok guys,let's continue to play how is now.

I go level my marks...later