Balance Update: official thread (stage 1)

[doppelapfel]

I fear that this is a too hard nerf for locks (the changes on amun are perfect ime, only cd for cancelled spells is missing) and players will get a too big benefit from cs items again:

Sultars Terror
Old casting time: 3s
New casting time: 3s*0,6=1,8s

Casting time with 21%cs boni=1,8s/1,21=1,48 seconds
so 0,32 seconds less than without cs gear

Old benefit from 21% cs with 1,8s castingtime:
1,8*0,79=1,422
0,378 seconds less with uber gear

This would mean CS gear gives locks nearly the same bonus over players with normal gear as in the current version on the live servers.

NGDs decision to change the cs system is awesome in my eyes, leave arcane devotion and the normal castspeed as they are.

The only good point i can see is that locks dont have to rely on a single spell so much (which can be taken away by ms or not casted again cause of confuse or darkness) and the reduction of casting times would help conjus a lot, because many of them dont use arcane devotion and would have a great improvement without losing sth. I dont like this anyway.


Edit: I have decided to also write down the benefit you get from 21% cs with lvl 5 devotion, to show how much gear gives now (in the current version on amun locks will still use devotion, most at lvl 5):

Without cs gear:
1,8/2=0,9

with cs gear:
1,8/2,21=0,814...
so only 0,086... anything

With the 3 seconds casting time:
Without uber gear:
3/2=1,5

With:
3/2,21=1,357...
so 0,143... difference (compare that with 0,32).

[e30G]

Originally Posted by Tsuku

But then again, Arcane Projection kinda has the same effect.

But this time you are limited to 10 seconds (provided you casted projection) to get into position and fire off a Terror. Any CC cast on you will be enough to nullify devotion.

For reference, based on my suggestion, you can cast Terror at 1.8 seconds unbuffed without cast speed gear. With the current values of Arcane Devotion you can get to cast it as fast as 0.9 second but that would come with a +100% mana cost on the spell. So a Terror under Arcane Devotion will be cast really fast, but will cost the warlock 1000 mana.

In comparison, the current (and Amun devotion) will let you cast at 1.5 seconds on level 5. However you need to keep buffed up in order to do so. Once you lose your buff, it's back to 3.0 for you. So this isn't really a nerf, rather a change in gameplay tactics and add a new level of skill for mage gameplay.

Originally Posted by doppelapfel

This would mean CS gear gives locks nearly the same bonus over players with normal gear as in the current version on the live servers.

You have been too spoiled by cast speed items. Making items less influential in combat is a good move.

Originally Posted by doppelapfel

The only good point i can see is that locks dont have to rely on a single spell so much (which can be taken away by ms or not casted again cause of confuse or darkness) and the reduction of casting times would help conjus a lot, because many of them dont use arcane devotion and would have a great improvement without losing sth. I dont like this anyway.

Many Conjurers still rely on Devotion. The new Divine Healing spell makes Arcane Devotion more important for Conjurers now if they plan to use it with any sort of effectiveness.

A change to Arcane Devotion will allow warriors to cope better with Mage CC chains, while making mages slightly less susceptible to spells such as Mind Squash, Darkness and Confuse.

The 40% cast time reduction is more than enough IMO. When I still played my lock I only had Arcane Devotion 4 and it was well enough for me.

[doppelapfel]

Originally Posted by e30ernest

You have been too spoiled by cast speed items. Making items less influential in combat is a good move.

You got me wrong, i said youre suggestion makes the influence of cs items nearly as high as it is on the live servers atm, the version on amun now makes them much less usefull. Did you read the numbers i posted?

[Minorian]

I think that there should be next to no cs improvements. Ill be flamed from locks all around, so Ill explain my reasoning.

Warlocks are the largest DPS machine in the game. There is no question about it, they out DPS barbarians by alot. Melee attackers must be in melee range, which is quite rare these days, whereas locks can be 25-30+m away to unleash the most powerful attacks in the game. They also have some of the best CC's in the game, being able to completely drain a warriors mana before they can reach them, and also being able to delay that impact by a very long time. And when they get close, if MoD is put up, it's just an unfair fight.

Also, with energy barrier, life sucking abilities, and loads of CC's, locks become quite resilient.

So, isn't it only natural they should have a very long (and risky) cast time if they are going to decide a large part of the battle?

[e30G]

Originally Posted by doppelapfel

You got me wrong, i said youre suggestion makes the influence of cs items nearly as high as it is on the live servers atm, the version on amun now makes them much less usefull. Did you read the numbers i posted?

Sorry I misunderstood your previous post. It was 1:30am when I read it.

I get what you mean about how CS items will affect such a system, but also note a new option will be available to players with no CS gear.

Since Arcane Devotion will be a buff that gives a burst of cast speed, you can time this on critical spells and gain an advantage over someone who has CS gear over a short period of time. With such a system, a player with regular items has at least some hope of outcasting players with uber items if they time the buff just right.

Right now, your only choice is to buff up as high Devotion as you can all the time and hope your items are also better than his.

[ice_zero_cool]

Originally Posted by Mattdoesrock

I can confirm this as well.

Spells work, but normal hits do not.

nah, they only don't work with ARCHERS and MAGES. Warrior's autohits are working quite well

[doppelapfel]

Originally Posted by e30ernest

Sorry I misunderstood your previous post. It was 1:30am when I read it.

I get what you mean about how CS items will affect such a system, but also note a new option will be available to players with no CS gear.

Since Arcane Devotion will be a buff that gives a burst of cast speed, you can time this on critical spells and gain an advantage over someone who has CS gear over a short period of time. With such a system, a player with regular items has at least some hope of outcasting players with uber items if they time the buff just right.

Right now, your only choice is to buff up as high Devotion as you can all the time and hope your items are also better than his.

Thats not right, make some tests on amun. Lock pvps need much more skill now with less effective cs items and new gcds. And: you cant counter good cs items with devotion if the one with the items can have the same spell.

i like the idea to make ppl use more different spells and setups but this wont work that way.