Amun Open. Public test: Invasions (Version 1.19) - Page 4

Hollow-Ichigo · 04-25-2017, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian

- Modified: Some items can have a waiting time before being able to unequip them after combat or buffing. This is a temporary fix for Cupid Wings and similar items.

Needs adjusting. Can still hide buffs by switching between zarkit/cupid wings.

https://youtu.be/KB7dvmHpb7M

Adrian · 04-25-2017, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollow-Ichigo

Needs adjusting. Can still hide buffs by switching between zarkit/cupid wings.

https://youtu.be/KB7dvmHpb7M

Noted! Thanks!

Leily · 04-26-2017, 03:55 PM

Adrian answered a player who asked for 2 doors per wall and explain a bit more about invasion system.

Original post

First of all, we agree on the problem : to invade during peak hours. It's not a simple matter and it's not intended to be solved with this update (as we indicated, this update is meant to create a base where the system can be expanded in.)

Almost all the invasions systems we had were editable to make invasions possible at any time, but this wasn't done because they were broken in design ( meaning that if you adjust one thing, it affects another) and the gem theft would have been a piece of cake. The challenge lies in the challenge itself.

The 2 door system may sound great as idea, but in practice it implies a huge work of art, which even with the use of existing objects, it would require modifications in many things (places, maps, code, data) to move us to a test that already without implementing it tells that the attack problem would become now a defense problem. A ping pong between one door and another until one commits a mistake or worse... gets tired.

The solution has to go by the side of an entertaining challenge. The door is more an initial step and too similar to forts, making it monotonous. It has to be easy (although reversible, giving the defender an option) but not until the next stages become entertaining challenge. What this system proposes is that invading can be accessible and the defense, when we evolve some more, must happen inside the realm and with another mechanic that will give a twist to the fights at forts.

The current changes are few and do not seem to be changes themselves, but their subtlely shouldn't cover their true intention : to focus the invasions inside the realm and not outside, that was the big mistake. This is a first step and will not be deleted like the previous ones, we will continue inside.

It's not that we dont play RO, because we do. But we also know the code, its limitations and our limitations as human beings as well. And, even if it doesn’t seem like it, we know that humans always seek their own benefit no matter how and that brings down most of our ideas and the possibility of regnum's own style of play to survive. That unique style that, as a result of being so open and versatile makes things more difficult but as you may notice, with the upcoming 10th anniversary, we dont give up.

I would love for our team to include more people working in it, but for now this is what we have and although we have improved in the last months, the effort to be put is increasing and to ensure that it is not in vain, we have to separate it in several iterations, such as this is a first iteration of a base that we believe will be more useful to reach an ideal invasion system.

Notice that first important change : the focus shouldn't be on the wall. Even though the focus didn't change much, it did in our intention and design.

Soon, with the squid island, the portal and the cities we can create gameplay that incite to obtain it. Slowly but surely, we'll get there.

schachteana · 04-26-2017, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leily

Adrian answered a player who asked for 2 doors per wall and explain a bit more about invasion system.

Original post

[...]

I preferred Google Translator's version:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian

We do not play RO, because we do.

But seriously though Leily, thanks for the translation, that was very informative

Kimahri_Ronso · 04-26-2017, 04:39 PM

There already was a "2-door system", gate-boats.
Did it work? If it did, it wasn't removed...

Invasions changing because it always gets updates by the DEvs, also the population of each server is changing, some leaving, some returning, some multi-ing. Taking these things into account, and the fact that invasions are heavily depending on the population, what you believing to be the right thing to do today, might be outdated tomorrow. Impossible to balance things out as long as the population isn't stable, that is what you should aim for first, try to get a stable player base in each realm, on each server. Then you can try to modify the invasion system, until that happens, every "try" is just another waste of time, as others already stated it. Sad, but true.

More new content, new items, frequent updates, active TDM and most of all new players, that is what this game needs IMHO

Hollow-Ichigo · 04-26-2017, 04:43 PM

I don't see how invasions will ever be truly balanced, far too many factors to take into account. 2 walls doesn't even sound like a good way to accomplish anything. Only way to make it decent is to give invaders a harder time of getting gems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollow-Ichigo

Needs adjusting. Can still hide buffs by switching between zarkit/cupid wings.

https://youtu.be/KB7dvmHpb7M

Just some more info, the changes are pretty useless since you can just switch from cupid wings to any other costume and switch back to get the same effect. (no wait time)

Probably have to adjust it so you cant switch from wings to any other costume for ~30 seconds. 2 minutes is too long imo

Thallium · 04-26-2017, 09:12 PM

I like the relic changes.

I don't like the idea of using timers and NPCs to try and regulate invasions. This has never worked. Big zergs will have an easy time invading as always. Timers make the game more boring.

I would like to see the wall always vulnerable and the gems unguarded. Big zergs will still have an easy time, but then so would small groups. A counter-invasion would be a good option for a small realm. Forts don't need to do anything except hold relics. Let realms choose between a surprise gate attack and a fully-buffed invasion.

Less mechanics is better. Let there be chaos.

Adrian · 04-28-2017, 03:30 PM

We like some of these ideas. Remember that they may not enter in this stage but probably in a next one we will take them into account.

We just updated Amun with the following changes:

- Fixed: Unequipping Cupid Wings and similar items caused visual effects to be removed. (at last!)
- Modified: Warmaster Coins wish added with 7 days wait time between choices. Is affected by WMC boost.

And several fixes to Invasions and the Dragon Wishes by in-game mail to players offline or outside the portal that helped get at least one gem for that portal opening.

Kimahri_Ronso · 04-28-2017, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian

- Modified: Warmaster Coins wish added with 7 days wait time between choices. Is affected by WMC boost.

Why making the stronger even stronger? Again.
How about giving something for the few too, that is trying to face a zerg?

In other games, if you win, you get the "jackpot", if you lose, you get 5 "jackpot parts" that can be assembled to obtain the jackpot. I don't see any sign of such effort being planned by you...Still

Adrian · 04-28-2017, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimahri_Ronso

Why making the stronger even stronger? Again.
How about giving something for the few too, that is trying to face a zerg?

In other games, if you win, you get the "jackpot", if you lose, you get 5 "jackpot parts" that can be assembled to obtain the jackpot. I don't see any sign of such effort being planned by you...Still

That's a nice idea. Too bad I didn't read this a week ago...

04-26-2017, 03:55 PM	#33
Leily Count Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 1,040	Adrian answered a player who asked for 2 doors per wall and explain a bit more about invasion system. Original post First of all, we agree on the problem : to invade during peak hours. It's not a simple matter and it's not intended to be solved with this update (as we indicated, this update is meant to create a base where the system can be expanded in.) Almost all the invasions systems we had were editable to make invasions possible at any time, but this wasn't done because they were broken in design ( meaning that if you adjust one thing, it affects another) and the gem theft would have been a piece of cake. The challenge lies in the challenge itself. The 2 door system may sound great as idea, but in practice it implies a huge work of art, which even with the use of existing objects, it would require modifications in many things (places, maps, code, data) to move us to a test that already without implementing it tells that the attack problem would become now a defense problem. A ping pong between one door and another until one commits a mistake or worse... gets tired. The solution has to go by the side of an entertaining challenge. The door is more an initial step and too similar to forts, making it monotonous. It has to be easy (although reversible, giving the defender an option) but not until the next stages become entertaining challenge. What this system proposes is that invading can be accessible and the defense, when we evolve some more, must happen inside the realm and with another mechanic that will give a twist to the fights at forts. The current changes are few and do not seem to be changes themselves, but their subtlely shouldn't cover their true intention : to focus the invasions inside the realm and not outside, that was the big mistake. This is a first step and will not be deleted like the previous ones, we will continue inside. It's not that we dont play RO, because we do. But we also know the code, its limitations and our limitations as human beings as well. And, even if it doesn’t seem like it, we know that humans always seek their own benefit no matter how and that brings down most of our ideas and the possibility of regnum's own style of play to survive. That unique style that, as a result of being so open and versatile makes things more difficult but as you may notice, with the upcoming 10th anniversary, we dont give up. I would love for our team to include more people working in it, but for now this is what we have and although we have improved in the last months, the effort to be put is increasing and to ensure that it is not in vain, we have to separate it in several iterations, such as this is a first iteration of a base that we believe will be more useful to reach an ideal invasion system. Notice that first important change : the focus shouldn't be on the wall. Even though the focus didn't change much, it did in our intention and design. Soon, with the squid island, the portal and the cities we can create gameplay that incite to obtain it. Slowly but surely, we'll get there. Last edited by Leily; 04-26-2017 at 04:06 PM.

04-26-2017, 04:39 PM	#35
Kimahri_Ronso Baron Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Arborea Posts: 649	There already was a "2-door system", gate-boats. Did it work? If it did, it wasn't removed... Invasions changing because it always gets updates by the DEvs, also the population of each server is changing, some leaving, some returning, some multi-ing. Taking these things into account, and the fact that invasions are heavily depending on the population, what you believing to be the right thing to do today, might be outdated tomorrow. Impossible to balance things out as long as the population isn't stable, that is what you should aim for first, try to get a stable player base in each realm, on each server. Then you can try to modify the invasion system, until that happens, every "try" is just another waste of time, as others already stated it. Sad, but true. More new content, new items, frequent updates, active TDM and most of all new players, that is what this game needs IMHO __________________ *A voice from the past.* *Faded.* New premium items \| My WM tree

04-28-2017, 03:30 PM	#38
Adrian NGD·Studios Join Date: May 2007 Location: Wien, Österreich Posts: 2,859	We like some of these ideas. Remember that they may not enter in this stage but probably in a next one we will take them into account. We just updated Amun with the following changes: - Fixed: Unequipping Cupid Wings and similar items caused visual effects to be removed. (at last!) - Modified: Warmaster Coins wish added with 7 days wait time between choices. Is affected by WMC boost. And several fixes to Invasions and the Dragon Wishes by in-game mail to players offline or outside the portal that helped get at least one gem for that portal opening. __________________

04-26-2017, 09:12 PM	#37
Thallium Pledge Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 45	I like the relic changes. I don't like the idea of using timers and NPCs to try and regulate invasions. This has never worked. Big zergs will have an easy time invading as always. Timers make the game more boring. I would like to see the wall always vulnerable and the gems unguarded. Big zergs will still have an easy time, but then so would small groups. A counter-invasion would be a good option for a small realm. Forts don't need to do anything except hold relics. Let realms choose between a surprise gate attack and a fully-buffed invasion. Less mechanics is better. Let there be chaos.