Does true love exist ... ?

[mrclean]

We're not only flesh... We're spirit, emotional soul and eros, every part is located in different place of our physical body (head, heart, genital - intellect, feelings, istincts...) That is.

True love is something belongs only to the heart not in any other part, and this explains why you can't explain love. As the ying and yang, we all need our complementary part, for me that is true love.

Someone may think I'm mad now

[Inkster]

fean0r they will either think you mad or very perceptive

[Static_Fang]

Originally Posted by Inkster

fean0r they will either think you mad or very perceptive

His a bit of both

[CumeriTarenes]

well, there is a difference between love and love.

At the beginning just after falling in love you cannot speak about true love imo.
These kind of love from the beginning will go some day, you get used to it as boger said. But the love from the beginning has to change after a certain time into not only love, it has to change into a friendship based on trust and the will to support each other no matter what. For this it is very important that you have shared interests, that you can laugh about the same things as well as you have to be different from each other in certain points to complete each other.

That's my point of view and this is how I think about true love from first hand.

[ArcticWolf]

Originally Posted by fean0r

We're not only flesh... We're spirit, emotional soul and eros, every part is located in different place of our physical body

l know there is a soul or "something else" than just chemical reactions, but i can't prove it, so i left it out of my analysis.
let's not start with the metaphisical discussions about where the heart lies, it's not related (directly) to this topic.

[magnet]

If this was the subject of the philosophy test we all get in France at the end of high-school (and I guess in other civilized countries), and as a matter of fact it has been the subject in the past, most of you would get 0.

On the scientist views, ie people who want to explain all in terms of biological truths, it is sad to see that your knowledge of Science is limited to the cognitive branchs of psychology. Saying that back-end mechanism of the mind (known as psyche) is physiological is a matter of belief -- I myself believe so. However saying that the causality relation between the state of the mind (emotion) and the physiological stimulus (hormones or whatever) is one way is just wrong. There is just as much proof that "hormones" are secreted because of love than saying that love is a reaction of the "hormones". I personally believe in the former.

Finally I would rather, in the whole thread, agree with Dark Feanor: we aren't machine, it is not because our mind is a consequence of chemical reactions and electric signals that it is not independent. That's what we call the soul, and let me clear it of any religious notion. In Latin, soul is "anima" (which gave âme in French or alma in Spanish); before Christianity, it had no religious meaning, it only referred to the mystery of things that move by themselves, that are animated. Hence animals have souls in the Roman belief.

Let me close the scientist vs. "life is not that simple n00bs" debate with these "test" of the existence of the human mind as an existence above the mere physical world:

There is the famous "cogito ergo sum" of Descartes, as in "I think therefore I am" -- maybe I'm on a trip and imagining all of you guys, yeah maybe I'm in the Matrix and all the rest are fucking agents of the Matrix or simply the product of my troubled mind. But I do think -- therefore even if you're all fantasies or whatever, I do exist. I am.

The second test is the existence of the soul as defined by the Latin: the first spark of life. Kids, you can test this safely at home. Let's say you move your hand and put one finger against your forehead. Why did you just do that? Well, obviously because you're doing what you just read here. So you decided to move your hand to your forehead. But why did you decide to decide? And why did you decide, to decide, to decide? This is the soul -- a mysterious mechanism that defines sentient life. It's just the same with love (not as in love of God or family): a mysterious mechanism that makes you feel something for someone, but it's not because you consciously want it -- nor because your fucking hormones or your libido asks you to. It's because your psyche, more specifically the hidden part of the Iceberg, called by Lacan or Freud the unconscious (not to be confused with the subconscious which is the flawed thesis of Carl Yung), incites you to fall in love. Not for survival of the species -- not for hormones. Simply because your mind is an extremely complex system (more complex than a mere machinery), which grew with you since your most tender age, and that many mechanisms best described by psychoanalysts make it so that "this is the person". Because this is the time, because you might unconsciously remember someone or a feeling through this person, because the personalities might work out, etc.

To sum up, there is nothing simple here to be explained in a few words. Does true love exist? I believe so. Does it happen frequently? No, and I believe few are the people who actually experience it. For the rest of us, we can settle with the fake feeling of fake love and lie to ourselves. It's enough as long as you are satisfied with your sexual partner.

[octopus]

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

well, there is a difference between love and love.

At the beginning just after falling in love you cannot speak about true love imo.
These kind of love from the beginning will go some day, you get used to it as boger said. But the love from the beginning has to change after a certain time into not only love, it has to change into a friendship based on trust and the will to support each other no matter what. For this it is very important that you have shared interests, that you can laugh about the same things as well as you have to be different from each other in certain points to complete each other.

That's my point of view and this is how I think about true love from first hand.

Well said, Cumeri. The problem with discussing love is that there are so many definitions of love. What a lot of people call love is just erotic and emotional attraction. "Oh, she is so hot! Wow, she makes me feel good! I can't stand to be away from her!" That sort of love will fade, though it can easily be kept alive to some degree.

Another form of love is, as Cumeri said, a friendship and commitment to support each other in the long haul. It is mutual respect, and understanding the other person's perspective. It's patience, and working through difficult times together. It is a promise to take care of each other, even if and when they become sick or old. This is what I would consider "true love" and the love that keeps people together and happy for a lifetime.

And there is the love of children, parents, extended family, friends, community and mankind in general. This can be demonstrated by self-sacrifice. Saving money for a child's college education instead of buying that fancy new car, sitting at the bedside of a sick or dying friend, helping a friend with a car problem, etc.

This might sound like a contradiction, but I do also believe what others here have said, that there is no love. The erotic/emotional love is endorphines firing in our brains, giving us pleasure, a self-serving reward. Also without it, there would be no offspring, meaning the end of your genetic line, a "loser" by nature's standards. The friendship/commitment form of love is a mutual agreement that benefits both parties, and therefore could be considered selfish, self-serving. And the last form of love, the love of family, friends and community also could be considered selfish, as keeping a friend alive today might allow them to keep you alive tomorrow (sort of like me as a conjurer healing a barb, so they can kill the enemy before he kills me, eh?). Also making a sacrifice for a loved one, friend or the community can give a very rewarding feeling, so many sacrifices are actually selfishly motivated to get that happy feeling.

Though these forms of love can be demonstrated as selfishly motivated, the end result is a win-win for everyone. So, love one another, damn-it!

[Mikan]

Personally, I think that people who try to explain love need to get a girlfriend or boyfriend. They obviously have way too much free time if they are able to sit around and think about what love is in such... detail.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what love is.

People who try to explain it away with science or other biological mechanisms only create a depressing scenario for others, and I think it is simply something that does not need to be explained, even if it is possible to do so.

Just love someone. It's a very easy thing to do.

Cheers.

[Boger]

Originally Posted by Katiechan

Just love someone. It's a very easy thing to do.

Its not that easy, haterd and neutrality is way easier - and less problematic.

Well, most of you here (not the married ones), just repeat over and over the feelings in the 2-3 month sprung (Emily in the lead lol), then have in mind the boredom that eventually comes out, you cant fight it, you just can hide it - pretending that everything is fine. But is pretending a good way for living?

Even the best matched couples break, thats because when we fall on the ground after a trip in the clouds, not everything seems as colourfull as it did before, oftenly this scares out one side away and plays the game neutral after that again.

The "one and only" matter, there is no such thing. You will ALWAYS find some1 that fits you better, mentally and/or physically, who makes your butterflies fly even harder in the stomach. But here comes the trustworthyness topic. Its a game about pretending that you are not affected with charms and vibes from beyond the relationship, the stronger you have your will, the longer you will resist it (just like in RO heh).

Is the feeling (love) beautyfull? No, it leads ppl to do crazy stuff, changing them forever, making them injured, or those who have a weaker mentallity - you know what here.

About my trips, just a quick remark by a few that made my point of view so:

1. Relationship lasting about a year, she decided to brake up with me cause I went to a private school to study Computer Science - argument? I wont have time for her. - heh?

2. An affair that lasted 2 weeks, wanted to make it a relationship but after those 2 weeks she tells me that she has a bf, and he comes back from france tommorow (then tommorow lol) - heh?

3. Kind-of-relationship, 1,5 month or so - what did break? She pouted on me because I didnt want to move (leave everything behind) on the other side of poland with her - heh?

There are a few to it more, but those are the 'pearls' of all of them.

Thats why Ive found myself some new hobbies and to-do's for all days, Im fed up with this crap srly.

[Pizdzius]

no words can describe my blasé indifference to this subject.