Could Syrtis borrow us some archers?

[ncvr]

Originally Posted by Yawney

Marks have more range than locks but terror is 10m area... Max range of a marks is 44.85 and max range of terror is 44.5 - that's not much of a difference is it?

Edit: These numbers are without +range items. Do they still exist?

For a marksman to be hit at a distance higher than their maximum range, the marksman must be directly behind the primary target. By avoiding the main group, the warlock has two options: waste his terror on the marksman (in which case the marks gets what he wants anyway) or terror the main group while putting himself in range of the marks. The additional area effect should not be added onto the max range of terror and used as a balance argument because it can very easily be avoided.

[Yawney]

Originally Posted by Necrovarus

For a marksman to be hit at a distance higher than their maximum range, the marksman must be directly behind the primary target. By avoiding the main group, the warlock has two options: waste his terror on the marksman (in which case the marks gets what he wants anyway) or terror the main group while putting himself in range of the marks. The additional area effect should not be added onto the max range of terror and used as a balance argument because it can very easily be avoided.

It isn't supposed to be a balance argument. I'm only trying to show that not standing in the middle of a group in a fight is not that easy as it looks. The best position is 10+ m away to the left/right from the group. Then using simple math you get that the marks need to have 36+ m range to be able to shoot while not getting any of the support spells the group is getting. For this much range you need parabolic shot which costs mana and has limited duration.

Last but not least the range of terror isn't a problem, the fact that canceled spells don't get on cooldown is. But this isn't the point of this thread.

[ncvr]

What was said was "if the marks stands away from the group", not standing in the middle of a group in a fight.

The fact that canceled spells don't get on cooldown is unintended behaviour (and confirmed by Kailer), yet it still hasn't been fixed over 3 hotfixes after 1.0.8.

[Piggly]

Marks are definitely support. This only works when we give a crap about who we're playing with. If I am thrown to the dogs more than once by the same group, expect the same in return. More than once I have been killed by guards when others more suited stand around...and yeah, I run. I don't run from battles. I will turn and fight, and usually die, but I won't leave my mates.

A marks just can't do well alone. We NEED everyone else. I can hit stuff an awful long ways away, but don't hold up so well when a barb is smacking me around. Mana is an issue, but it is for everyone. I just have to learn to manage it more effectively.

When we are getting farmed by huge gelf presence at samal, it is incredibly easy to start pointing fingers. I have gone repeatedly into battle against huge forces there and died dozens of times at one battle. When there is no cohesion, we all die.

To me, it's not about the weaknesses of the individual classes, or the inability of the players. It's about leadership. I will latch on to an older player and try to do what he or she does. That's how I learn.

When some snooty bitch starts talking about how archers suck, or conjus suck, it just makes me type in /ignore and chalk it up to another spoiled baby that wants to blame everyone else in the world for their own inability to form a cohesive unit.

Of one thing you can usually be sure...when you see an Ignis zerg, there is death coming to someone. When it clicks, it clicks quite nicely. When it doesn't, that same epic zerg will die embarrassingly fast.

It's not about 'you suck' or 'they suck.'

[Dome]

1. Marx aint support. I dont wanna see a marx spam cc spells. IM FED UP WITH STUPID MARX FREEZING THE TARGET I AMBUSHED!!!. If marx want cc spells use dizzy arrow, but I emphasize. DO NOT USE FREEZE unless you are running away from the target.

2. Hunters are support. Hunters aint useless in fort fights. BUT. Most hunters on horus (dunno about ra) ARE usless. They just run around under SOTW shoting with their stupid bow, doing pathetic damage. And thats what marx are for.

3. Dupa is half right, and I would like to ask him to post a list of cc spells he as a warrior would like to see from a hunter/marx.
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[dejan]

/me facepalms after reading Dome's reply...

Marksmen ARE support - our main job is to defend warriors in battles, and that is why Dupa wants more marksmen in Ignis. I can only agree, but I must say Alsius needs more marksmen than Ignis - you have more marksmen then them, much more. And, you have lots of good marksmen too.

Problem with Ignis is, I suppose, that everybody wants to be Efrendi, so You have many barbarians. (OK, that was partially a joke )

[e30G]

Originally Posted by Dome

1. Marx aint support. I dont wanna see a marx spam cc spells. IM FED UP WITH STUPID MARX FREEZING THE TARGET I AMBUSHED!!!. If marx want cc spells use dizzy arrow, but I emphasize. DO NOT USE FREEZE unless you are running away from the target.

Sorry but I too believe that Marksmen are meant to support by complimenting warrior damage and by defending the team through picking out critical targets (mages and other ranged classes) at range. They can also deter enemy ranged units or rushing warriors through their damage.

Regnum's main damage dealers are supposed to be warriors and NGD is hoping to bring balance to that direction. They are the ones to deal the finishing blows. Ranged classes are meant to make warrior rushes possible and soften up their enemies to make warriors' jobs easier.

A well timed Winter Stroke can be a life saver. Don't blame the idiots that freeze targets for no reason. It's a perfectly good spell.

Originally Posted by Dome

2. Hunters are support. Hunters aint useless in fort fights. BUT. Most hunters on horus (dunno about ra) ARE usless. They just run around under SOTW shoting with their stupid bow, doing pathetic damage. And thats what marx are for.

Hunters are support yes. They share a bunch of CC spells with Marksmen in the Tricks tree as well as slow spells like Caltrops and Ensnaring. They have the added ability to sneak up and flank enemies and disrupt their lines well enough for warriors to rush in. Hunters like Namus, Milu and Compost do this pretty well. Also note what pets they bring along.

Originally Posted by Dome

3. Dupa is half right, and I would like to ask him to post a list of cc spells he as a warrior would like to see from a hunter/marx.

You should see how Marksmen like Minamoto, Xia, Lune, Anpu and Enio protect their allies through well a timed Winter Stroke, Burst of Wind, Ambush and other spells.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

Originally Posted by TheMessenger

I agree. Ive only seen maybe 5 people from tyr in the wz. and 1 bastiaan or something just spams realm chat with "help" anytime he sees an enemy

We have him too! Is he in Alsius as well?

Originally Posted by e30ernest

You should see how Marksmen like Minamoto, Xia, Lune, Anpu and Enio protect their allies through well a timed Winter Stroke, Burst of Wind, Ambush and other spells.

I see! Very painfully.

[Arafails]

Originally Posted by Dome

1. Marx aint support. I dont wanna see a marx spam cc spells. IM FED UP WITH STUPID MARX FREEZING THE TARGET I AMBUSHED!!!. If marx want cc spells use dizzy arrow, but I emphasize. DO NOT USE FREEZE unless you are running away from the target.

All classes are, in their own way, support. Winter stroke (and freeze, which is a warlock spell, btw) can be extremely effective for stopping a hunter from getting away from some chasing warriors.
Marks have some very useful CC spells, such as Lightning Arrow.

Originally Posted by Dome

2. Hunters are support. Hunters aint useless in fort fights. BUT. Most hunters on horus (dunno about ra) ARE usless. They just run around under SOTW shoting with their stupid bow, doing pathetic damage. And thats what marx are for.

And making it impossible to select the enemy with their giant f**king trolls.

Originally Posted by Dome

3. Dupa is half right, and I would like to ask him to post a list of cc spells he as a warrior would like to see from a hunter/marx.

All CC spells. Used properly. At the right time. On the right targets. It always depends on the flow of the battle.

[Pimousse]

I think Marksman are not only "support".

Yes Marksman have cc and range, so they are helpfull, like hunters (yes when they don't hide some targets with their stupid toltar). But here, hunters have more advantages, as said before. Note that barbs are support too, in the same way, since they have cc spells.

Marksman have too a lot of damaging spells, and a lot more than cc spells ! They can't spam them because of mana limitation, but they can kill fast when needed. They are marksman !

Well, i have too grind my marks now