Current state of the International Proletarian Revolution - Page 5

ArcticWolf · 02-28-2010, 12:01 AM

You're still thinking how to solve problems that should have been solved in the 20th century with a 19th century mindset, not taking into account we're in the 21st century.

Communism and Capitalism aren't the same they used to be. Both were based upon the "lack of resources" and a steady but ever-demanding local market. Classical Capitalism promotes free markets, almost no economic intervention and requires your market to be local. Nowadays, markets are global, heavily regulated and full of monopolies.

Classical Communism opts to heavily regulate the market, even deciding which jobs you may apply to. One of the dogmas is that every job is as important as any other and so everyone should be paid the same salary. While this was theoretically true two centuries ago, nowadays just training an engineer (or any other professional) makes him more valuable than a plain worker, just because he can perform both tasks. Even more, Communism completely fails to acknowledge this simple fact just for the sake of (a fake) class equity.

Don't get me wrong. I do think the world is screwed up, politicians are evil to the bones and our economic system is broken. It's just that I *hate* when people refuse to look at the problem with a cold mind and fresh ideas.

PS: I don't consider myself a technocrat, but I sound like one... Heh.

Froste · 02-28-2010, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umaril

The vast majority who can vote and could potentially change the world away from capitalism, mainly those in America, west europe, australia, China, Japan etc... (the last 2 are shifting increasingly towards capitalism)

Of the locations you listed all but two are socialist democracies. Though Australia has been moving dangerously close to facism for the past 10 years.

And Africa is a continent not a country.

Arafails · 02-28-2010, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Froste

Of the locations you listed all but two are socialist democracies. Though Australia has been moving dangerously close to facism for the past 10 years.

Believe me, Australia has been moving towards isolationist fascism since Federation 109 years ago.
It's only becoming apparently close because our major two sets of fascists are having less arguments about how to best be fascists.

I can't really add anything new to this discussion, except possibly for the observation that the USSR had the potential to be much more successful than it was....

SlackerLinux2 · 02-28-2010, 03:37 AM

/me approves of this thread

out of Capitalism and Communism the one that sounds the most fair to all is definitely Communism

but to change you need an overwhelming amount of ppl who want to change(never going to happen because too many people are getting way more then their fair share and they wont want that to change) or alot of people who are willing to force a change by force(never works out often the people who force the change end up just as bad)

the only way things will get better if people stopped thinking of themselves and taking more more more(banks and company's recording billions in profit while others starve etc) and started to consider fairness with everything there is enough for everyone if only people took only their fair share.

nedax · 02-28-2010, 03:48 AM

yes, i am not agree wiht the capitalist system, but i dont think that a dictatorship regnimen will make better thins...

i like the greek democratic system (specially from athenas), is very representative system and its bride-proof

pd: the next generation won´t change this fucking capitalist system, they are as ignorant as the other generations...

Henri_Freundlich · 02-28-2010, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godot

Capitalism is an economic system based on supply and demand.
Communism is a system of government where no member of society
is exploited for the profit of another.

Deus Ex: The Conspiracy - Dark Age ending

'Revolutions' are scattered in history - not a new concept. 99% of them cause more dissent, rather than peace. "Optimism" just doesn't cut it these days.

- "Saving" via assinations

terekon · 02-28-2010, 05:01 AM

I think the documentary 'the corporation' would be a good watch for some of the ppl posting here. The idea that the corporations or capatalist governments for the matter would think of anything but the bottom line goes directly against the principles of capitalism.

Which is how we go to where we are today. Each and every one of us became a corporation the day we were born. They gave us a number and said go make us some revenue. Asside from the idea of capitalism communism, there is the natural person. The person that each one of us is without the number our govts gave us when they declared us a citizen.

Henri_Freundlich · 02-28-2010, 06:29 AM

Post scarcity is what you're going after, I believe.

Llayne · 02-28-2010, 08:30 AM

Pinko commie socialist marxist fascist!

lol... you know I wuv you.

The counter argument could be that if you get rid of classes and therefore human ambition no one will try to reach for the stars or whatever and humanity will not progress. Or to put it another way, greed drives us, motivates us.

Is that motivation a good thing? I dunno...

terekon · 02-28-2010, 08:43 AM

Before we were societies as we know it we were ppl. There were no jobs, the only thing there was to do was survive. What drove us then? Was it our need to one day develop a super badass car? Or was it simply to not be eaten by some crazy ass animal running around thinking we were delicious...

The difference between then and now is that of the calf and the bull, our drive is different now. What we do is not for our survival but for our own self satisfaction. We are brought up to believe thats what we need. To be the best at this or get this job. In the end we all die and all your personal success will be for not. Your children will grow up in a polluted world as economic slaves to a monopolized system that sends them to foreign countries to kill poor ppl that pray to a different god.

It is easier to go along with the flow of traffic. Like sheep doing what your Sheperd tells you, or you can work toward something that can change the direction your system is moving toward. Take the blinders off and choose not to follow down the path of mediocrity. Yes in the capitalist system ppl have a drive, but who bennefits? Enron, Tyco, Bank of America, Chevron, Exxon Mobile.

I dont know about you but i think they are doing fine without my help.

02-28-2010, 12:01 AM	#41
ArcticWolf Duke Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 0x00CAFE Posts: 3,366	You're still thinking how to solve problems that should have been solved in the 20th century with a 19th century mindset, not taking into account we're in the 21st century. Communism and Capitalism aren't the same they used to be. Both were based upon the "lack of resources" and a steady but ever-demanding local market. Classical Capitalism promotes free markets, almost no economic intervention and requires your market to be local. Nowadays, markets are global, heavily regulated and full of monopolies. Classical Communism opts to heavily regulate the market, even deciding which jobs you may apply to. One of the dogmas is that every job is as important as any other and so everyone should be paid the same salary. While this was theoretically true two centuries ago, nowadays just training an engineer (or any other professional) makes him more valuable than a plain worker, just because he can perform both tasks. Even more, Communism completely fails to acknowledge this simple fact just for the sake of (a fake) class equity. Don't get me wrong. I do think the world is screwed up, politicians are evil to the bones and our economic system is broken. It's just that I hate when people refuse to look at the problem with a cold mind and fresh ideas. PS: I don't consider myself a technocrat, but I sound like one... Heh. __________________ I don't have a solution, but I admire the problem.

02-28-2010, 03:48 AM	#45
nedax Master Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Peleando contra el fascismo en el sur del mundo Posts: 285	yes, i am not agree wiht the capitalist system, but i dont think that a dictatorship regnimen will make better thins... i like the greek democratic system (specially from athenas), is very representative system and its bride-proof pd: the next generation won´t change this fucking capitalist system, they are as ignorant as the other generations... __________________ Retirado.

02-28-2010, 05:01 AM	#47
terekon Pledge Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 25	I think the documentary 'the corporation' would be a good watch for some of the ppl posting here. The idea that the corporations or capatalist governments for the matter would think of anything but the bottom line goes directly against the principles of capitalism. Which is how we go to where we are today. Each and every one of us became a corporation the day we were born. They gave us a number and said go make us some revenue. Asside from the idea of capitalism communism, there is the natural person. The person that each one of us is without the number our govts gave us when they declared us a citizen. __________________ WAR IS PEACE - FREEDOM IS SLAVERY - IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH Terekon\|52 Onuris\|50 Peccavi\|WM\|60 Beaver Cheese\|41 Aletron\|32

02-28-2010, 08:43 AM	#50
terekon Pledge Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 25	Before we were societies as we know it we were ppl. There were no jobs, the only thing there was to do was survive. What drove us then? Was it our need to one day develop a super badass car? Or was it simply to not be eaten by some crazy ass animal running around thinking we were delicious... The difference between then and now is that of the calf and the bull, our drive is different now. What we do is not for our survival but for our own self satisfaction. We are brought up to believe thats what we need. To be the best at this or get this job. In the end we all die and all your personal success will be for not. Your children will grow up in a polluted world as economic slaves to a monopolized system that sends them to foreign countries to kill poor ppl that pray to a different god. It is easier to go along with the flow of traffic. Like sheep doing what your Sheperd tells you, or you can work toward something that can change the direction your system is moving toward. Take the blinders off and choose not to follow down the path of mediocrity. Yes in the capitalist system ppl have a drive, but who bennefits? Enron, Tyco, Bank of America, Chevron, Exxon Mobile. I dont know about you but i think they are doing fine without my help. __________________ WAR IS PEACE - FREEDOM IS SLAVERY - IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH Terekon\|52 Onuris\|50 Peccavi\|WM\|60 Beaver Cheese\|41 Aletron\|32

02-28-2010, 03:37 AM	#44
SlackerLinux2 Apprentice Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: the land downunder Posts: 68	/me approves of this thread out of Capitalism and Communism the one that sounds the most fair to all is definitely Communism but to change you need an overwhelming amount of ppl who want to change(never going to happen because too many people are getting way more then their fair share and they wont want that to change) or alot of people who are willing to force a change by force(never works out often the people who force the change end up just as bad) the only way things will get better if people stopped thinking of themselves and taking more more more(banks and company's recording billions in profit while others starve etc) and started to consider fairness with everything there is enough for everyone if only people took only their fair share.

02-28-2010, 06:29 AM	#48
Henri_Freundlich Pledge Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 35	Post scarcity is what you're going after, I believe.

02-28-2010, 08:30 AM	#49
Llayne Initiate Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 205	Pinko commie socialist marxist fascist! lol... you know I wuv you. The counter argument could be that if you get rid of classes and therefore human ambition no one will try to reach for the stars or whatever and humanity will not progress. Or to put it another way, greed drives us, motivates us. Is that motivation a good thing? I dunno...