Marksman damage

[fritsz]

Originally Posted by Umaril

I would think to get that sort of damage they need outside buffs, onsl, owth, bless wep etc ...

Could be, but he thinks we don't understand how to play a marksman. So i wonder how we should play it then, i'm intrested

[Nils_Dacke]

It seems the consecutive nerfs of the marksman subclass since this game was early beta, has consisted of lowering damage while keeping mana cost the same. This is what has led up to a situation where mana deficiency is the single most inhibiting factor for a marksman.

Compare for instance the marksman skill lightning strike -- which used to deal up to 1000 dmg on a good day -- with the corresponding warlock skill summon lightning. A measly summon lightning(2) deals more damage than a lightning strike(5) and costs less mana. A summon lightning(5) is 1600-2400 dmg for 600 mana, a lightning strike(5) is now 550-650 dmg for 500 mana, dealt by a class that has nothing resembling ambitious sacrifice or sadistic servants -- 500 mana is a fortune for a non-mage.

Or compare fire ball with ignus scorch. Even a fire ball(4) exceeds ignus scorch(5) when it comes do dmg and mana cost, but fire ball is range 25 compared to the awkward-to-use close quarter range of ignus scorch. Mana is cheap for mages, but expensive to all other classes, marksmen in particular.

I don't remember if ignus scorch was nerfed too; it wouldn't surprise me if it was. There was however never anything wrong with lightning strike as it was before. (Why should damage-dealing be reserved for warlocks and barbarians only?) But after a bit of whining from people (who play other classes) the dmg from it was about halved, while the mana cost reminded the same. Same thing happened to death sentence.

The real war in Regnum Online is not the skirmishes between realms in-game, but the war between subclasses going on in the forum. ('class struggle'? ) There are people who have enough manipulation skills to gain influence on the developers by campaigning here, and apparently it works. We have to be aware of that. The developers ought to be aware of that too, but I honestly doubt they are.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Ignus was nerfed, Im not sure if damage/mana/cast time was changed but IIRC it used to have only 8 seconds cooldown.

[veluchami]

Originally Posted by KarlXII

It seems the consecutive nerfs of the marksman subclass since this game was early beta, has consisted of lowering damage while keeping mana cost the same. This is what has led up to a situation where mana deficiency is the single most inhibiting factor for a marksman.

Compare for instance the marksman skill lightning strike -- which used to deal up to 1000 dmg on a good day -- with the corresponding warlock skill summon lightning. A measly summon lightning(2) deals more damage than a lightning strike(5) and costs less mana. A summon lightning(5) is 1600-2400 dmg for 600 mana, a lightning strike(5) is now 550-650 dmg for 500 mana, dealt by a class that has nothing resembling ambitious sacrifice or sadistic servants -- 500 mana is a fortune for a non-mage.

Or compare fire ball with ignus scorch. Even a fire ball(4) exceeds ignus scorch(5) when it comes do dmg and mana cost, but fire ball is range 25 compared to the awkward-to-use close quarter range of ignus scorch. Mana is cheap for mages, but expensive to all other classes, marksmen in particular.

I don't remember if ignus scorch was nerfed too; it wouldn't surprise me if it was. There was however never anything wrong with lightning strike as it was before. (Why should damage-dealing be reserved for warlocks and barbarians only?) But after a bit of whining from people (who play other classes) the dmg from it was about halved, while the mana cost reminded the same. Same thing happened to death sentence.

The real war in Regnum Online is not the skirmishes between realms in-game, but the war between subclasses going on in the forum. ('class struggle'? ) There are people who have enough manipulation skills to gain influence on the developers by campaigning here, and apparently it works. We have to be aware of that. The developers ought to be aware of that too, but I honestly doubt they are.

+1 on all points. And yes mana is the biggest problem with marks.
Marks was the only char which was nerfed with a vengeance. I think they nerfed like 6 skills in just one update, all essential ones. And they reduced our damage + defence(which was supposed to affect hunters, but never did).
Ignus scorch was awesome, till they nerfed, added a cast time and increased CD sealing its usefulness in war. Although it was a spell that not many marksmen used, kudos for NGD going the extra mile to make a spell useless.

What made the mana problem even worse was the mana comm nerf, after which the conjus stopped using it.

IMO, NGD should play their own game first. If they find a spell thats not used by anyone, then it should be improved. If every spell is equally desirable to have, we would have a rich and diverse setup pool and the game would suddenly become so much more fun to play. But right now we have only like 3 or 4 setups that everyone uses. Take like 3 months off development, just stop doing everything and start playing all different classes. Or atleast every developer should play atleast an hour of RO daily. Then we would start seeing meaningful changes I think.

[Mattdoesrock]

Originally Posted by KarlXII

Compare for instance the marksman skill lightning strike -- which used to deal up to 1000 dmg on a good day -- with the corresponding warlock skill summon lightning. A measly summon lightning(2) deals more damage than a lightning strike(5) and costs less mana. A summon lightning(5) is 1600-2400 dmg for 600 mana,

Summon Lightning (5) does around 18 damage / tick to my non mage classes. On mages it does around 80 damage / tick.

That's alot less than 1600 - 2400 to the majority of people. Plus it's incredibly easy to Dispell.

Also, the old Ignus Scorch was pretty powerful. 500 damage every 8 seconds was pretty nice for fort wars.

[Gawyn_Trakkand]

Ok today (17/04/10) i killed 2 archers at efe beach both near enough full health it makes no difference one hunter one marks. Hunter was lvl 48 marks lvl 46+. I killed the hunter with minimal effort prebuffed wrath before camo came out with a 600 ensnare and then ambush hunter was dead before they got back up, my pet was killed by the marks in this time.

So me a petless lvl 50 hunter in a pet setup almost empty on mana after casting Sotw 5 and buffing Acrobatic 5 and evasive 4 so it went down to norms for me.

This marks buffed the same Acro and evasive and strat pos (i dont know the exact levels) with this combination i should be hitting lower than the marks, Marks was armed with a med 30 dragon wings bow me a med 25 long bow with the +dmg a marks has the marks should do alot more dmg than i could.

I hit higher than the marks on average 50 or 60 dmg +. My point of this story is that a petless, pet skilled hunter killed a buffed full health Marksman (granted approx 4 lvls lower) with just normal hits thanks to the pitifully low dmg they do without good gear.

P.S. the way to go with this is not to nerf others but to improove marksman.

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by Umaril

Ignus was nerfed, Im not sure if damage/mana/cast time was changed but IIRC it used to have only 8 seconds cooldown.

IIRC:
Cooldown raised from 10s(?) to 20s.
Casttime raised from Instant to 0.5 to 1 second.

[Nils_Dacke]

Originally Posted by Mattdoesrock

Summon Lightning (5) does around 18 damage / tick to my non mage classes. On mages it does around 80 damage / tick.

And lightning strike(5), the way you count, deals about 100-300 per enemy on a good day.

The proper way is to compare raw dmg, not taking into account resist and armor. Both attacks are lightning dmg and are resisted and soaked by auras and armour in exactly the same way.

Summon lightning(5) deals 80-120/s (raw dmg) for 20s. 80*20=1600, 120*20=2400, i.e. around 3-4 times the dmg from lightning strike(5) (550-650). Lightning strike was nerfed with the argument that it dealt waaay too much dmg. It dealt less than half to summon lightning already.

[Zordak]

Originally Posted by KarlXII

The proper way is to compare raw dmg, not taking into account resist and armor. Both attacks are lightning dmg and are resisted and soaked by auras and armour in exactly the same way.

The proper way is to do exactly the opposite. Damage reduction works on every tick of a DoT spell while only once on an instant spell. Comparing the on-paper-damage does not reflect the spells effects at all.

Unfortunately it will also lead to a lot of "no the numbers are rather like this than like that" posts in every discussion.

Z.

edit: removed some words that somehow slipped into the quote Oo

[Revolverxxx]

i use lighting strike on lvl1 at the moment simply for the -25% speed reduction. i dont understand this skill. the way i see it, its damage should be on par with a warlocks sultar. at lvl5 its damage is really low and with the high mana cost and cast time i dont see any point in investing anymore. being the penultimate skill of a full on damage dealing tree, its a bit dissapointing

**Delayed Edit: if that is the case, why not just take away the damage and increase the amount of movement reduction per level. would be way more useful that it is now. ie -60% movement speed area is alot more helpful than an area that does 100 damage

im not sure what it was before it was nerfed but i wouldnt mind if a +100% damage was added to it