New invasion system.... - Page 5

bois · 01-29-2013, 10:17 PM

For sure it is better. Well, Let me rephrase that. The foundation from which to build something great is there. Right now I rate it as good.
I am not too concerned about the dragon damage. I mentioned why in my last post. Essentially it is to force a 2 realm battle at the gate perimeter. Lowering the damage outright allows the 3rd realm to intervene, possibly making the negative feedback loop too much for the defenders.

With that said, I have seen some unsavoury things like the gem carriers standing under the dragon in attempt to "farm" the defenders with gem as bait. It is not illegal but it does expose a weakness in the system whereby a defending realm is at a ridiculous disadvantage at the outside of the gate from an impossible negative feedback loop. The fact that they can exit through gates which are far (but can't be placed closer) reduces the chances of flashpoints in the warzone and thus less of a chance to recover. The offensive teleport if well used (not often) could be an important mechanism to use.

To this end , I think that a new mechanism should be considered. There are many options. I throw out a few. Feel free to discuss (I am suggesting only one be used )

1. The dragon remaining time gets reduced by 50% once the defending realm has no home gems on their pedestals. Gate vulnerability timer does not change. This means that the longer the invaders take, the less advantage they gain while the invaded gradually gain advantage the longer they hold out. Doing both Noble and gems will not be as easy to do in one round as before with static dragon countdown.

2. If you have no gems (i.e devastated) you can be made vulnerable by the normal way but the dragon does not come to the gate. In this case , the negative feedback loop is not important as the only target is the noble. In this case, defending it should give some benefit. A simple (DFD)XP boost to every enemy you kill in your realm or 5 WM points per unique kill (for lvl 60) should be sufficient. The disincentive of getting invaded will be counterbalanced by the strong incentive to clean out the invaders. Negative feedback loop averted.

3. Once the gems or in the case of one already stolen, the remaining gem breaks free of the gate, the dragon leaves in 2 minutes. Optionally, it loses its magical powers and becomes similar in damage to the ones inner realm.

4.Giving the class with the defensive teleport a third location option during invasions could be something to think about .

Horsing with relic. I said my piece on that already. However, taking into account that NGD took more than a year to admit the gaffes in Warmasters ( I am surprised they did at all), this may take a year of 'observation' to work out that it isn't the best of ideas. I suppose that the thinking is that while on horse you have speed but no access to other spells.
Simply making them like gem carriers solves all the issues and promotes team play. I do assume, teamwork is what they are aiming for.

All in all, it is a good foundation. A few tweaks here and there and the issues could be resolved with a minimum of fuss. The ideas presented may not be my greatest ones but, at least it is somewhere to start.

As for the timer on the dragon summoning table, that one needs a closer look. I think a timer there is fine but its modulation should be carefully examined.

ieti · 01-29-2013, 10:58 PM

+10000000000000000 to what bois said!

If they implement what you writen invasions will be way way more fun. Please NGD take this thread into accoount and especially bois's reply.

I agree it gets better. Go go NGD.

Kimahri_Ronso · 02-01-2013, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bois

1. The dragon remaining time gets reduced by 50% once the defending realm has no home gems on their pedestals. Gate vulnerability timer does not change. This means that the longer the invaders take, the less advantage they gain while the invaded gradually gain advantage the longer they hold out. Doing both Noble and gems will not be as easy to do in one round as before with static dragon countdown.

2. If you have no gems (i.e devastated) you can be made vulnerable by the normal way but the dragon does not come to the gate. In this case , the negative feedback loop is not important as the only target is the noble. In this case, defending it should give some benefit. A simple (DFD)XP boost to every enemy you kill in your realm or 5 WM points per unique kill (for lvl 60) should be sufficient. The disincentive of getting invaded will be counterbalanced by the strong incentive to clean out the invaders. Negative feedback loop averted.

3. Once the gems or in the case of one already stolen, the remaining gem breaks free of the gate, the dragon leaves in 2 minutes. Optionally, it loses its magical powers and becomes similar in damage to the ones inner realm.

4.Giving the class with the defensive teleport a third location option during invasions could be something to think about .
[U]

Quite nice ideas Bois ^^

But:
1; Regardless of the time the dragon will spend at the gate it won't change things at all...
It will be still there, one-hit-kill everyone, blocks the gate completely so players will have to use the far-placed trap doors making it impossible to do a regrouped chase on the gem.

On the other hand we'd need something to help underpopulated realms that are being invaded so they won't feel so depressed and frustrated after the event.
I'd like to see Guard Captain(s) at inner side of the gate, an option to disable side doors at gate for the attackers and an option to disable the dragon some way... Your second thought sounds pretty nice and it could be also used when number imbalances occur at an invasion!

Also, bring those trap doors closer for the defending realm please so they can leave their realm faster!

The problem with the 3rd idea would be that although the dragon has lost "it's magical power" and became a boss mob, it still can do way too much damage IMHO, not to mention, that as far as I noticed it it does only critical hits lol

. Leaving in two minutes sounds better

.

+1 to your 4th thought ^^

All in all I like your way of thinking, I wish NGD could think with your head

.

Orimae · 02-08-2013, 08:42 AM

Arty, once again, words of wisdom

Something does need to change... before, defending realm got Guards Captains , the less Defenders, the more guards on gate.. now its reversed and attackers have the advantage.

Maybe bring back this feature, but slightly modified... maybe , make them spawn on the inner realm side of the gate... so invaders have dragon on their side, defenders have at least one GC on theirs, i know there are guards with the flag, but they are no match for a dragon and 30+ invaders when you have 7 people on...also, the GC will stay, even if the enemy capture the gate.

My only worry.. would open it to abuse by hunters, stalkering past the GC´s into the gate... skill reveal everyone XD

One more thing... can we please have the gems update instantly on the maps again? like before? Seems unfair relics are instantly updated on the maps, but gems still every 10 seconds or something?

01-29-2013, 10:58 PM	#42
ieti Count Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sofia, Bulgaria Posts: 1,374	+10000000000000000 to what bois said! If they implement what you writen invasions will be way way more fun. Please NGD take this thread into accoount and especially bois's reply. I agree it gets better. Go go NGD. __________________ RA \| Ignis \| Lilla My \| Conjurer \| EVIL IGNIS ROCK Horus \| Syrtis \| ieti \| Conjurer \| INQUISITION \| LONG GONE

02-08-2013, 08:42 AM	#44
Orimae Initiate Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 222	Arty, once again, words of wisdom Something does need to change... before, defending realm got Guards Captains , the less Defenders, the more guards on gate.. now its reversed and attackers have the advantage. Maybe bring back this feature, but slightly modified... maybe , make them spawn on the inner realm side of the gate... so invaders have dragon on their side, defenders have at least one GC on theirs, i know there are guards with the flag, but they are no match for a dragon and 30+ invaders when you have 7 people on...also, the GC will stay, even if the enemy capture the gate. My only worry.. would open it to abuse by hunters, stalkering past the GC´s into the gate... skill reveal everyone XD One more thing... can we please have the gems update instantly on the maps again? like before? Seems unfair relics are instantly updated on the maps, but gems still every 10 seconds or something? __________________ Φ Operation Repo Φ

01-29-2013, 10:17 PM	#41
bois Count Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trinidad and Tobago Posts: 1,194	For sure it is better. Well, Let me rephrase that. The foundation from which to build something great is there. Right now I rate it as good. I am not too concerned about the dragon damage. I mentioned why in my last post. Essentially it is to force a 2 realm battle at the gate perimeter. Lowering the damage outright allows the 3rd realm to intervene, possibly making the negative feedback loop too much for the defenders. With that said, I have seen some unsavoury things like the gem carriers standing under the dragon in attempt to "farm" the defenders with gem as bait. It is not illegal but it does expose a weakness in the system whereby a defending realm is at a ridiculous disadvantage at the outside of the gate from an impossible negative feedback loop. The fact that they can exit through gates which are far (but can't be placed closer) reduces the chances of flashpoints in the warzone and thus less of a chance to recover. The offensive teleport if well used (not often) could be an important mechanism to use. To this end , I think that a new mechanism should be considered. There are many options. I throw out a few. Feel free to discuss (I am suggesting only one be used ) 1. The dragon remaining time gets reduced by 50% once the defending realm has no home gems on their pedestals. Gate vulnerability timer does not change. This means that the longer the invaders take, the less advantage they gain while the invaded gradually gain advantage the longer they hold out. Doing both Noble and gems will not be as easy to do in one round as before with static dragon countdown. 2. If you have no gems (i.e devastated) you can be made vulnerable by the normal way but the dragon does not come to the gate. In this case , the negative feedback loop is not important as the only target is the noble. In this case, defending it should give some benefit. A simple (DFD)XP boost to every enemy you kill in your realm or 5 WM points per unique kill (for lvl 60) should be sufficient. The disincentive of getting invaded will be counterbalanced by the strong incentive to clean out the invaders. Negative feedback loop averted. 3. Once the gems or in the case of one already stolen, the remaining gem breaks free of the gate, the dragon leaves in 2 minutes. Optionally, it loses its magical powers and becomes similar in damage to the ones inner realm. 4.Giving the class with the defensive teleport a third location option during invasions could be something to think about . Horsing with relic. I said my piece on that already. However, taking into account that NGD took more than a year to admit the gaffes in Warmasters ( I am surprised they did at all), this may take a year of 'observation' to work out that it isn't the best of ideas. I suppose that the thinking is that while on horse you have speed but no access to other spells. Simply making them like gem carriers solves all the issues and promotes team play. I do assume, teamwork is what they are aiming for. All in all, it is a good foundation. A few tweaks here and there and the issues could be resolved with a minimum of fuss. The ideas presented may not be my greatest ones but, at least it is somewhere to start. As for the timer on the dragon summoning table, that one needs a closer look. I think a timer there is fine but its modulation should be carefully examined.