Discusion para el mejoramiento de los Tiradores

[FerGilmour]

Bueno gente, lo dejo ahí un par de días. Si nadie se opone, luego lo pongo en Balance y linkeo desde acá para ir a firmar.
No me agradezcan a mí, no soy el autor, apenas releí y escribí lo que opinaron todos ustedes.
Un abrazo colegas!

[Quincy-]

Eso no me parecio weno...ME PARECIO EXCELENTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

ESTA LA VERGA COMPADRE TE FELICITO.

[Lysander_Alcander]

Originally Posted by FerGilmour

Bueno gente, lo dejo ahí un par de días. Si nadie se opone, luego lo pongo en Balance y linkeo desde acá para ir a firmar.
No me agradezcan a mí, no soy el autor, apenas releí y escribí lo que opinaron todos ustedes.
Un abrazo colegas!

Gran trabajo Ferg, ya trabajo en la traducción.

[FerGilmour]

Originally Posted by Lysander_Alcander

Gran trabajo Ferg, ya trabajo en la traducción.

Exxxxcelente!

[Lysander_Alcander]

Ok aquí está la traducción
Por favor avisenme si hay errores en algún punto de la redacción.

Saludos

Gameplay:

- Marksman should recover at least half of the of shoot angle that was removed. His current excessive frontality makes him a victim of the famous “dance” from any other character, both range as melee. If a magician can cast a skill, turn over, run and throw it anyway, the marksman should at least have the chance of not lose the casting or normal shoot by a simple and limited lateral movement of his target

- Given that the natural and distinctive advantage of the marksman is his passive range and the possibility of doing range damage, the time of dizziness before the first normal shoot is excessive and even inappropriate. The target gets time to get out of the range (and also the angle) of attack. In the same terms, to initiate the attack with a skill to avoid the dizziness isn’t effective, in function of the limited range of the most of these (mostly between 25 and 30 m). It is suggested, on the same terms, to move the skill Parabolic Shoot to a discipline of the subclass.

- The capacity of movements of the marksman should return (move back or move sideways), according to the speed of shoot of his bow, without falling into a new temporal dizziness. It is inconceivable that the character suffers a penalty after another in war, the need to reposition is permanent for those who, for example, attacks a fort or a castle. Not to mention then a casual meeting with an enemy (not a previously agreed pvp, just a meeting and confrontation). Please note that what is asking for IS NOT that the marksman can shoot WHILE is moving.

Equipment

- The marksman designed as subclass that supports by doing range damage, in a paradoxical way, doesn’t have the possibility of equip level 50 bows, slow, range 30. We are forced to use Composite Dragons Wings bows, of levels between 44 and 48, to accomplish with the role that the Developers identified for our role in war. We need, as a result, a bow of such characteristics of maximum level and with a reasonable base damage. Other suggestions along the discussion of more than 50 pages, refers to the need for the existence of a bow of very low speed, range 35 and damage that goes with it; all this in function of the characteristics of the subclass.

Penalties of the subclass

Death Sentence: Its current range and penalty results ineffective. Sentence should be reconsidered as and advantage counteroffensive of the marksman individually if a melee gets close to attack, or when the marksman loses his natural advantage (range) and is exposed to attacks of other range characters from other subclasses. The penalty of Sentence could be raised and be valid only for the marksman who cast it, without affect the attacks that the other characters do to the target, whether marksman or not.

The range of Sentence could be close to the old values, because the only one that gets an advantage for its use will be the caster itself, who would increase his capacity of inflict damage to the threat of the attack by a character who doubles his life and armor (Knight) or triples in damage (Barbarian). While there are other views about Sentence, is very clear the huge disagreement. It was a first choice skill, now is a alternative use one.

Finger Crush: Today, it is a skill that almost no one uses. In level 5 penalizes with -25% of hit chance and -28% critical hit. It hasn’t utility against mages who just use skills, or against Knights who can afford miss the half of their normal hits. Or against Barbarians, who finish a marksman with a Ripost/South Cross and a Beast Attack. Finger Crush should be recalculated or replaced.

Burst of Wind: Significant penalty, an accord cost of maná, insignificant damage, and excessive recharge. Today, offensive Warlocks and Conjurers are everywhere. Sultar’s Terrors and Tremors define a battle. There is too much people to Dizzy. Then, the request is, ignoring the issue of the damage, a shorter cooldown of the skill.

Areas of the subclass

The damage inflicted by the area skills of the subclass is radically low. In a paradoxical way, the two better area skills are the two that belong to the Bows disciplines (Repetition Shot and Projectile Rain), shared with the hunter.

Witness case: Lightning Arrow. As Sultar’s Terror, without the possibility of reducing its cast time in a 70%, with a mana cost equal (and unrecoverable), the damage inflicted is just the half. The penalty of speed movement, in our point of view, doesn’t equate such difference.

Other subclass areas: The damage inflicted by each one deserves a review. Many of them aren’t used by absolutely anyone, such as Needle Blast, which never had a known purpose. Fire Rain inflicts damage between 400-500 when is an area skill in the level 17 of the discipline. Radically insufficient. Perhaps, only Ignus Scorch has a damage (520-600) according to the cost of mana, but the cooldown prevents it from being a real and effective support to the area skills of the other subclasses.

Auras of the Subclass

Five of the subclasses have the possibility to use auras. Even the hunter, beyond the use it or not, has Stalker Surroundings. Marksman is the only one left out.

Maybe it would be reasonable review that the subclass also had its own aura.
As a suggestion, in function that the marksman is supposed to be a Aiming Mastery, it would be possible an aura that improve substantially the Hit Chance (Normal Hits), of those within its radius of effect, or a similar aura of protection against range attacks (Normal Hits), of those within its radius of effect, (although the Knight already has a similar aura, they are useless, for example, defending a fort or a castle from the ledge). The subject of the marksman’s auras is controversial. Its use is not obligatory, but is fair that if the other five subclasses have it, also the marksman has own auras.

Self-Defenses of the subclass

The only self-defense of the subclass is Strategic Position. It has a high mana cost, an average effectiveness against ranged attacks, and null against melee attacks, as well a shorter duration time than cooldown. In combination with other defenses that correspond to the Archer class, forms a set of reasonable value. However, its a determining and conditioning factor in the configuration that the subclass wants to choose. Designed and developed as a offensive character of range, the marksman should have the possibility to be always protected from ranged attacks. It is suggested a similar time of both duration and cooldown of the skill, and a raise of the protection value. Or, a longer duration than the cooldown time, and a limited damage tolerated, matching its functionality with Energy Barrier in mages.

As well, is also requested a review of the Evasion discipline of the Archers, doing an emphasis in the very little importance of the Passive skill Cat Reflexes, in the excessive cost of maná and total ineffectiveness of Spell Elude and in the excess of penalty of Hit Chance in the skill Evasive Tactics.

Skills, damages and cooldown time of the subclass.

Overall, is requested a change of concepts. The limitation of damage inflicted by skill of the marksman is the mana limit which he counts, and the excessive cost of the minimum necessary defensive buff. The maná just is not enough to use four buffs and also cast five skills, or four, or three. Then, it would be fair that the marksman could choose a configuration according his intentions to reduce the taken damage or to raise the damage inflicted by himself.

The normal hit damage of the marksman is an issue that has to do directly with his configuration and equipment. In other words, it depends in each player ximerin investment, of his dropping and trading time, etcetera. However, the damage corresponding to Dexterity suffered an excessive low (from 2.5 of damage per point to 1.5). Is suggested a new review of such low, in order that the disproportion of damage between normal hits of a marksman equipped with a premium bow and the damage of the others is honestly excessive.
It should be revalued also in some degree; the normal hit difference between the long bow, both slow and medium.

Referring to the skills of damage of the subclass, we request an integral review of the cooldown time, mana cost, and range of them, one by one, en the two disciplines of its own.
For Recharged Arrows, we dare to suggest an inferior mana cost than today or well, according to the vox populi, request that it becomes a Passive skill of damage of the subclass. It is worth to remark that the marksman using normal hits is the only subclass that spends mana instead of recovering it.

As well, we request a new reevaluation of the poor 36% of damage bonus of the skill Lethal Strike. Its high mana cost, and the minimal chance make us consider the validity of its use when thinking about an effective and rational administration of the mana.

Cyclops Curse also needs an integral review, like Seeking Strike, which could leave its place to a Penalty skill or an aura.

Passive skills of the subclass

The marksman is a huge mana consumer. The subclass should have, therefore, a passive skill of Intelligence of his own (as the hunter does), or better yet, mana, like Mana Pool, of the mages. So, it would be possible to choose configuration variants, aiming to reasonable damage normal hits or to use multiple varieties of skills, passing through, of course, for intermediate nuances. The current amount of mana is far too limiting, which leads to the 90% of the marksman choose similar configurations. Perhaps, one of the factors that determinate marksman’s low-quality of gameplay today, is his high degree of predictability.

[-Vastian-]

Originally Posted by Lysander_Alcander

Ok aquí hay una parte de la traducción, lamento no poder hacerla completa pero tengo que salir y llego tarde a casa hoy :S

Por favor avisenme si hay errores en algún punto de la redacción.

Saludos

Jugabilidad:

- Marksman should recover at least half of the of shoot angle that was removed. His current excessive frontality makes him a victim of the famous “dance” from any other character, both range as melee. If a magician can cast a skill, turn over, run and throw it anyway, the marksman should at least have the chance of not lose the casting or normal shoot by a simple and limited lateral movement of his target

- On the ground of the natural advantage and distinctive of the marksman is his passive range and the possibility of doing range damage, the time of dizziness prior to the first normal shoot is excessive and even inappropriate. The target gets time to get out of the range (and also the angle) of attack. In the same terms, to initiate the attack with a skill to avoid the dizziness isn’t effective, in function of the limited range of the most of the same (most between 25 and 30 m). It is suggested, in the same terms, to move the skill Parabolic Shoot to a branch of the subclass.

- The capacity of movements of the marksman should return (move back or move sideways), according to de cadence of shoot of his bow, without falling into a new temporal dizziness. It is inconceivable that the character suffers a penalty after another in war, the need of reposition is permanent for who, for example, attacks a fort or a castle. Or mention then a casual meeting with an enemy (not a previously agreed pvp, just a meeting and fight). Please note that what is asking for IS NOT that the marksman can shoot WHILE is moving.

Equipamiento:

- The Marksman should, as subclass that supports by doing range damage, in a paradoxical way, doesn’t have the possibility of equip a level 50 bows, slow and range 30. We are obliged to use Composite Dragon’s Wings bows, of levels between 44 and 48, to accomplish with the role that the Developers identified for our role in war. We need, as a result, a bow of such characteristics of maximum level and with a reasonable base damage. Other suggestions along the discussion of more than 50 pages, refers to the need of a bow of very low speed, range 35 and damage that goes with it; all this in function of the characteristics of the subclass.

Penalizaciones propias de la subclase

Death Sentence: Its current range and penalty results ineffective. Sentence should be re-build as and advantage counteroffensive of the marksman individually if a melee gets close to attack, or when the marksman loses his natural advantage (range) and is exposed to attacks of other range characters from other subclasses. The penalty of Sentence could be elevated and be valid only for the marksman who cast it, without affect the attacks that the other characters do to the target, either marksman or not.

The range of Sentence could be close to the old values, because the only one that gets an advantage for its use will be the caster, who would increase his capacity of doing damage in front of a threat of the attack by a character who doubles his life and armor (Knight) or that triples in damage (Barbarian). There are other ideas about Sentence, but is very clear the huge disagree. It was a first choice skill, now is a alternative use one.
Finger Crush: Today, it is a skill that almost no one uses. In level 5 penalizes with -25% of hit chance and -28% critical hit. It hasn’t utility against magicians who just use skills, or against Knights who can afford miss the half of their normal hits. Or against Barbarians, who finish a marksman with a Ripost/South Cross and a Beast Attack. Finger Crush should be recalculated or well replaced.

Burst of Wind: An important penalty, an accord cost of maná, insignificant damage, and excessive recharge. Today, offensive Warlocks and Conjurers are everywhere. Sultar’s Terrors and Tremor are the most important in war. There is too much people to Dizzy. Then, the request is, ignoring the issue of the damage, a shorter recharge time of the skill.

¡Great work friends!

[sunsui]

a mi criterio seria:

Una pasiva en la rama de maestria en flechas, porque simplemente no tenems ninguna, la idea seria q saetas fuese pasiva y asi no aria falta poner pasivas para aumentarns el mana.

Area fuerte d daño o con buen penalizante, pq a diferencia de gerreros o magos, ls arqeros no tenems una buena area, ni siqiera con buen penalizante. Esto seria para ls arqers en general, no solo para el tira.

Aura para aliados, puesto q el tirador no tiene ninguna q beneficie a nuestrs aliados, es el unico pj q no tiene.

Hay algunas cosas mas q abria q cambiar pero creo q con solamente esto llegaria.

[Orkryst]

Perfecto!

[Lysander_Alcander]

Listo, ahí dejé en el Edit la traducción completa.

Ferg tu karma me llenó de verguenza, te tomaste todo el trabajo de reunir nuestras ideas y organizarlas en algo legible () y encima me das karma solo por traducirla? Jeje no se que decirte.. un capo

En otro post leí a Chilko diciendo que la próxima acualización iba a ser completamente de balance, asi que no veo un mejor momento para exponer nuestras ideas...

Tal vez sea conveniente abrir un nuevo post y animar a los tiradores de RO a dejar su firma solo si aprueban la movida :P

Saludos a todos

[Wooten]

Originally Posted by Lysander_Alcander

Listo, ahí dejé en el Edit la traducción completa.

Ferg tu karma me llenó de verguenza, te tomaste todo el trabajo de reunir nuestras ideas y organizarlas en algo legible () y encima me das karma solo por traducirla? Jeje no se que decirte.. un capo

En otro post leí a Chilko diciendo que la próxima acualización iba a ser completamente de balance, asi que no veo un mejor momento para exponer nuestras ideas...

Tal vez sea conveniente abrir un nuevo post y animar a los tiradores de RO a dejar su firma solo si aprueban la movida :P

Saludos a todos

el karma te lo tiré yo jajaj
(o tal vez si te envio un karma ferg :P)